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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2765
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I saw that as well.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/07/17/passengers-downed-malaysian-jet-include-aids-researchers/gqsSX0nIzomz3ay41tmzLJ/story.html

Now I'm really concerned.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9556

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the most likely scenario at present is that the separatists shot the plane down, period, end of question.

more to the point, "ex" russian military personnel operating for the kremlin were probably the ones who did it.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12256
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
the most likely scenario at present is that the separatists shot the plane down, period, end of question.

more to the point, "ex" russian military personnel operating for the kremlin were probably the ones who did it.

Not so sure about that last part. It seems more likely that troops with regular army experience would have been able to ID the plane first, and not been so trigger-happy. The Russian military isn't incompetent, but incompetence is what I would expect of separatist fighters, or maybe even mercenaries.

I think a more likely scenario is that it was separatists operating the missile system with some kind of crash-course training, technical, and logistical support from the Kremlin.

Ukrainian officials are already claiming that the missile launcher in question has disappeared into Russian territory. But since they can't access the area (under rebel control), verification is hard to come by.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17282
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that seems reasonable - especially given the conversation you quoted earlier. these are people who haven't even considered that it's perfectly reasonable for civilian air traffic to use the air space - everything is all about their little war. people with military experience would surely have been trained in the importance of identifying a target before shooting at it.

will be interesting to see if this makes russia back off a bit...especially as the passengers are identified, and people realize what the loss was.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 4904
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
The Russian military isn't incompetent,


Are we sure about that? Corruption and incompetence are two of the more common narratives you hear about the post-Soviet military, at least in regards to their ventures in Chechnya.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh.

Anyhoo, the Wikiwar has already begun.
Russia caught editing Wikipedia entry about MH17
Quote:
The edit was in response to an initial edit to the MH17 section that said the plane was shot down "by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation," according to the website Global Voices.
In a counter-edit less than an hour later, the entry was changed to say, "The plane was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers".

Interesting to note that both versions are accusatory and unsubstantiated.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massachusetts buffer zone, take 2.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 652

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A view from a Clinic Escort volunteer

Written with a UK viewpoint, so you'll have to excuse the "they have guns here" thing and analysis of the UK situation, but the experiences of the volunteers in New York are worth consideration.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the "they have guns here" thing is valid and important - people _do_ have guns here, and it ups the tension.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

perry calls out national guard to protect our border from the influx of criminal aliens! border sheriffs say "ummm........"

some selected quotes:
Quote:
Sheriffs and others along the border said they had not been consulted. They questioned the wisdom of sending military personnel who are not authorized to stop anyone.

“At this time, a lot of people do things for political reasons. I don’t know that it helps,” said Cameron County Sheriff Omar Lucio.

He and other sheriffs said spending money to hire more deputies and police makes more sense. Lucio said deputies, police and the U.S. Border Patrol work well together and that they have been able to handle the small uptick in crime along the border.
(my bolding)
Quote:
Adj. Gen. John Nichols, commander of the Texas National Guard, said his troops have supported Department of Public Safety operations during weather-related and other disasters.

He said the troops would undergo training and be deployed slowly over the next month. Helicopter pilots would help identify suspicious activity, and ground troops would be supplied with water and have some medical training if they encountered children or others who have entered the country illegally.

“We are not planning on detaining people,” he said, but will help direct law enforcement.
(my bolding again - i'm sure law enforcement will appreciate the direction!)
Quote:
Perry gave no indication how the state would shift money to pay for the action — although an early memo from his office cited potential cuts from transportation and health services, areas of state government that are frequently strapped.
(note: he's actually hoping the feds will end up paying.)
Quote:
“This crisis is a public safety priority, and deploying the National Guard to the border is crucial to address the organized criminal activity by cartels and international gangs,” Abbott said.
(although they can't actually make arrests or anything...and:)
Quote:
With increased resources along the border and the slower U.S. economy, illegal crossings had dropped by nearly two-thirds from 2007 to 2012.

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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the republican immigration reform plan is to make america such a shitty miserable place that even people from impoverished countries controlled by vicious drug cartels and dictators don't want to come here

that's thinking outside the box you kale smoothie drinking liberal nazi kenyan muslim socialist orcs
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4191
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reuters: Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

Quote:
During the 10-year period, an estimated 7,000 Palestinian children aged 12 to 17, but some as young as nine, had been arrested, interrogated and detained, the U.N. report said.

Many are brought in leg chains and shackles before military courts, while youths are held in solitary confinement, sometimes for months, the report said.

It voiced deep concern at the "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", saying 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013 alone.

Israeli soldiers had used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings before them and to stand in front of military vehicles to deter stone-throwing, it said.

"Almost all those using children as human shields and informants have remained unpunished and the soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year-old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted," it said.

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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10567
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U.S. court upholds FDA animal feed policy despite health concern
BY JONATHAN STEMPEL
NEW YORK Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:23pm EDT


Quote:
(Reuters) - A divided federal appeals court on Thursday upheld a U.S. Food and Drug Administration policy allowing the use of various antibiotics in animal feed, even if such use might endanger the public health.

Reversing a lower court ruling, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York said the FDA was empowered to reject two citizen challenges to its policy, which discourages but does not ban the use of penicillin and some tetracyclines in feed for chickens, cows and pigs, even if they are not sick.

Critics and some scientists say the prolonged, widespread use of the feed to promote weight gain in animals can foster "superbugs," exposing humans who contact or eat the animals to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. They said the FDA should have followed through on its 1977 proposal to ban the feed entirely.

The FDA has long since promoted voluntary limits on animal feed containing the antibiotics. In December it began implementing a plan to phase out the feed's indiscriminate use, with an exception for when such use is "medically necessary."

In 2012, U.S. Magistrate Judge Theodore Katz in Manhattan agreed with the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), Public Citizen and other groups challenging the FDA policy that the refusal to consider the citizen petitions, which date from 1999 and 2005, was arbitrary and capricious.

Writing for a 2-1 appeals court majority, however, Circuit Judge Gerard Lynch said the FDA deserved deference, even if agency officials had scientific concern about the feed's safety.

"While the agency regards the indiscriminate and extensive use of such drugs in animal feed as threatening, it does not necessarily believe that the administration of antibiotics to animals in their feed is inherently dangerous to human health," Lynch wrote.

As a result, he said the FDA was not arbitrary or capricious in denying the petitions, or in encouraging what the agency has called "judicious" use of the feed, rather than seeking to withdraw approval through a "protracted administrative process and likely litigation."

Chief Judge Robert Katzmann dissented. He said the decision lets the FDA "openly declare that a particular animal drug is unsafe, but then refuse to withdraw approval," and "effectively ignore" challenges to that policy. "I do not believe the statutory scheme can be read to permit those results."

Jennifer Sorenson, a lawyer for the NRDC, said the decision "effectively gives the FDA a free pass to ignore the science when it is politically inconvenient." She said the group will explore its legal options.

FDA spokeswoman Jennifer Dooren said, "The FDA is currently reviewing the decision but is pleased with the outcome."


On June 30, the FDA said all 26 drugmakers affected by its December plan had agreed to "fully engage in" phasing out the use of the antibiotics in animal feed for food production, and phasing in veterinarians to oversee the remaining medical uses.

The case is Natural Resources Defense Council Inc et al v. FDA et al, 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Nos. 12-2106, 12-3607.

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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10800
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's awesome news, since we know pig farms have higher rates of resistant bacteria and that living near pig farms correlates with increased human infection by resistant bacteria... so, you know, it's NBD. Or something.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/27/335829570/u-s-satellite-images-show-russian-rockets-hitting-ukraine
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