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Taemon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is this Soros person, exactly? All I can find is that he's rich and left-leaning. But apparently he's behind it all, no really, argbarglar?[/i]
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
Who is this Soros person, exactly? All I can find is that he's rich and left-leaning. But apparently he's behind it all, no really, argbarglar?[/i]

Rich, left-leaning, and puts his money to work on social and sometimes political causes. That means he's Satan himself to the right-wing! He embodies everything that's wrong with the Big Elite Leftists, mostly because they have a hard time finding somebody else who can fit that stereotype.

I'll be honest, the only things I know about George Soros are what I hear from crazy right-wingers blaming him for everything. They never say why, though, apparently it's enough to evoke his name and insinuate that he's involved.

Meanwhile, pay no attention to those Kochs behind the curtain, that's just a Liberal boogie-man.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of domestic terrorism, the same day someone lost their life to White Supremacist violence on the East Coast, a botched bombing attempt buy a "3 percenter" was attempted in Oklahoma City.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/oklahoma-man-charged-in-anti-government-bomb-plot/2017/08/14/97816686-80f9-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html
Quote:
The FBI has arrested an Oklahoma man on charges that he tried to detonate what he thought was a 1,000-pound bomb, acting out of a hatred for the U.S. government and an admiration for Oklahoma City bomber Timothy Mc­Veigh, according to court papers.

Jerry Drake Varnell was arrested shortly after an attempt early Saturday morning to detonate a fake bomb packed into what he believed was a stolen cargo van outside a bank in Oklahoma City, according to a criminal complaint filed in federal court. He was charged with attempted destruction of a building by means of an explosive.

According to the complaint, over the course of a months-long undercover investigation by the FBI, Varnell made repeated statements about the extent of his hatred of the federal government.

In one conversation, he said he believed in the “Three Percenter” ideology — a form of anti-government activism that pledges resistance against the government on the belief that it has infringed on the Constitution, according to court papers. Those who subscribe to the ideology incorrectly believe that only 3 percent of the colonial population participated in the American Revolution, and they see themselves as their heirs.
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Taemon wrote:
Who is this Soros person, exactly? All I can find is that he's rich and left-leaning. But apparently he's behind it all, no really, argbarglar?[/i]

Rich, left-leaning, and puts his money to work on social and sometimes political causes. That means he's Satan himself to the right-wing! He embodies everything that's wrong with the Big Elite Leftists, mostly because they have a hard time finding somebody else who can fit that stereotype.

I'll be honest, the only things I know about George Soros are what I hear from crazy right-wingers blaming him for everything. They never say why, though, apparently it's enough to evoke his name and insinuate that he's involved.

Meanwhile, pay no attention to those Kochs behind the curtain, that's just a Liberal boogie-man.

Well, one reason he is a popular bogeyman for the far right is also, to be perfectly blunt, because he is a jew.
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't get anti-Semitism.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i figured just being a rich white guy who wasn't a hard-core republican would be enough to brand him as a class traitor, but that would apply to warren buffett as well - i guess being a jew (even a non-observant one) puts him over the top. oh, and he's a furriner.

he's actually a pretty interesting guy - here's his wiki page. warning: it's long. definitely more to him than just supporting hillary.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
I really don't get anti-Semitism.

I don't understand any of it. I just can't comprehend the thought process that goes into constructing a racist or antisemetic worldview. This lack of understanding really hobbles me when bigotry flies into my face.
I guess part of it is that I keep approaching the subject from the perspective of the people who were on the receiving end of discrimination, rather than diving into the mindset or rationale of the perpetrators.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, this is your problem, wheels. you are looking at it all wrong.

first of all, the world is divided into us and them. them is completely against us; they want to take our jobs and our women and our college education. only one group can have all the things, us or them. the only way to be sure we have all the things is to stop them from taking them. it's not like we can share or even, i don't know, create more jobs? we sure can't create more women because the ones we have are enough of a problem, but it's not like you can keep screwing barnyard animals because the trailer park won't let you keep them and anyway they can't cook dinner or do the laundry.

besides, them are evil. it's right there in the bible. the jews KILLED CHRIST, says so right there, and you can't let _that_ just go, i mean even jesus with all his talk about forgiveness and turning the other cheek and like that, he wouldn't want us to let those him-killers off the hook! also, they probably eat babies, and most of them have tails, even if they have trimmed off their horns. and the blacks were created to be slaves, son of ham, says so right in the bible, so they were totally out of line to insist on being freed and anyway, they are still animals. and the mexicans and the muslims aren't even _in_ the bible, so how evil must they be, not to even get a mention?

and in the end, well...us are just better than them. any them, even those foreign them that we are so proud of being descended from. (which is why we don't need to hear any of their damned socialist communist ideas because our way is BETTER). just because we didn't go to college and don't want to train to get something other than a blue-collar job in a dying industry, doesn't mean us aren't GREAT. like we always were. because if we don't have anything else, we have our white skins, and white is purity and good and all that stuff. i mean, god was white - just look at the pictures in the bible! what more do you need to know?


you just gotta learn the _facts_, wheels. then you'd see who the _real_ victims of discrimination are. sure not those uppity blacks and jews and women and such - they are the ones discriminating against _us_! every one knows "equal" really means "i'm better than you".
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Absynthe



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouse, you are a treasure.

Like Wheels, I just don't get it. It's like being tone-deaf, I imagine. I know these things exist, i just cannot connect to them in any meaningful way.
Your interpretation sounds like what I imagine is going on in the internal dialogue of some of these folks; a fever-born looping rant of loosely connected ideas that are the mental equivalent of a circular suspension bridge. Each load bearing member is supported by the next transfer joint which loads the next load bearing member which is connected to the next transfer joint...
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm probably too idealistic, but i wonder how much of it is founded in feelings of insecurity that are really feelings of insufficiency. i always figured, for example, that if you were good enough, you would get the job or the promotion or the college admission, and if you didn't, well, maybe there were just better people out there (as a woman, i know this isn't necessarily true, but i figure it's the ideal). ANYway .... i also always knew i was pretty damn good. if i weren't, if i were seeing "the other" getting what i wanted...would i be able to admit that i just wasn't good enough - or would i have found a way to claim they got special treatment? then again, a lot of people who think this way are in pretty good shape - is it that they fear losing everything? or do they just feel like they have to constantly man the walls, pushing off any ladders that may appear.

and people have always wanted scapegoats when things go bad. it's risky blaming it on god, but if there is someone else, someone different....well, i guess that makes an appealing target.

i just don't know. i don't even know if there is a logical reason, or how much of it is hatred handed down, unquestioned, through the generations. i'd like to think people could learn and change, but a lot of people seem really focused on just feeding on their own hate, and ignoring any attempts by others to get through. i don't know - i would think being that angry and full of hate would be exhausting, but i guess some people enjoy it.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Taemon wrote:
Who is this Soros person, exactly? All I can find is that he's rich and left-leaning. But apparently he's behind it all, no really, argbarglar?[/i]

Rich, left-leaning, and puts his money to work on social and sometimes political causes. That means he's Satan himself to the right-wing! He embodies everything that's wrong with the Big Elite Leftists, mostly because they have a hard time finding somebody else who can fit that stereotype.

I'll be honest, the only things I know about George Soros are what I hear from crazy right-wingers blaming him for everything. They never say why, though, apparently it's enough to evoke his name and insinuate that he's involved.

Meanwhile, pay no attention to those Kochs behind the curtain, that's just a Liberal boogie-man.


The wikipedia article about Soros is a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

Important points: He was born in Hungary in 1930, survived the Nazi occupation, he made his money through his own investments and business acumen i.e. not a billionaire by birth, he's written tons of books on politics and finance, and could be thought of as an iconoclast of the American political progressives. He's was very anti-Bush and was very actively outspoken in supporting Obama against his GOP opponents.
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ironic the number of times I've been accused of working for Soros given we're not exactly close politically. I never was a liberal. Still waiting for that check though.
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Taemon wrote:
I really don't get anti-Semitism.

I don't understand any of it. I just can't comprehend the thought process that goes into constructing a racist or antisemetic worldview. This lack of understanding really hobbles me when bigotry flies into my face.

Racism I sort of get. I mean, people look more or less like you, you can tell. If you're the kind that falls into the mouse-trap (sorry), I can see how easy it is to hate others because of skin colour. Sexism, same. They have different plumbing! Obviously they can't write computer code.

But apart from the hardcore fundies, Jews aren't recognizable as being Jewish. So you can become friends with someone and five years down the road discover their mother was born and raised Jewish but left the faith when she was fifteen. And suddenly they're greedy baby-eaters who made up that Holocaust thing? I don't get it.

Same with homophobia. I don't get it. I guess I shouldn't complain.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I recall correctly it wasn't until the end of the 19th century that the jews were allowed to settle wherever they wanted in western europe

Anti-semitism was born on some religious basis (guess who killed Jesus), and perceived grievances. The infamed yellow star was the last avatar of a lot of other signs that a jew had to wear (I recall a cap), or that they had to live in some secluded part of the city (ghetto) or that some jobs were barred to them, while other were (loaning money with interest was forbiddeen to christians, but jews could...) So they were markedly recognazible. Add some religious clothing (kippa) so even a 5y old can identify a religious jew easily.

They were given a dark and ominous agenda (the protocol of the elder of zion).. really written by the okhrana (tsarist secret police) which had been used ever since as a justification.

And, some were more educated than their neighbours. Health is a religious imperative hence the increased frequency of jewish doctors. To top it off, jewish zealots/extremist added oil to the fire being claiming loudly they were the chosen race that god made a pact with. That in turn was used as further justification.

It's indeed a bit like homophobia. For some people, it's a disease that can be caught. It's has the same ground as saying 'don't shake hands with a cripple, you'll get the same thing later'. One has some deeply rooted fears, and blaming another person's faith/lifestyle/whatever is a way to cleanse oneself...
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
Anti-semitism was born on some religious basis (guess who killed Jesus)

The, er, Romans?

Sam the Eagle wrote:
Add some religious clothing (kippa) so even a 5y old can identify a religious jew easily.


At the time, yeah. Not so much now. But thank you, that was interesting. We humans are a stupid lot at times.
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