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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1822
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
That's a no brainer, and the whole point. How do you make people best relate being in the person in front of you' shoes/skin? If you don't think for one moment that you can relate to some foreigner whose country you're visiting for but 3 weeks, what is your bar for those living near you daily, how do you translate their life in terms you can understand?

I don't get it, who is the foreigner who visits for three weeks? Isn't this about how English Muslims live in Britain? Apparently no one believes their pain unless a white person translates it first, which is rather problematic.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the British citizen whose testimony about Russian corruption led to the Magnitsky Act has now been targeted by Interpol for arrest at Russia's request for murder. The victim? His longtime friend and partner in Russia, the late Sergei Magnisky after whom the US law is named.

Being added to Interpol's arrest list automatically triggered the revocation of his US Global Entry visa, so for the time being he can't visit the US even to testify further on Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/21/russia-british-businessman-bill-browder-interpol
Quote:
On Saturday it emerged that Russia had placed the US-born British citizen on Interpol’s list, exploiting a loophole that lets countries unilaterally place individuals on its database used to request an arrest. Browder said he was alerted to the move by an email from the US department of homeland security, stating his “global entry status” had been revoked. Further calls confirmed he had been added to Interpol’s list via an arrest demand, known as a “diffusion”.


The Kremlin's fiction is that Browder, along with British intelligence, tricked Russia's prison doctors into withholding care for Magnitsky, leading to his death in Russian custody.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/world/europe/russia-sergei-magnitsky-william-browder.html
Quote:
“Basically, I’m their worst nightmare,” Mr. Browder said. “And their previous attempts to rein me in and get me back to Russia haven’t worked. It went from tax evasion, to more tax evasion, to fraud and libel, and now it is working its way up to murder.”

The case gained new prominence this summer after it emerged that a lawyer supporting the Russian government’s position had met during last year’s presidential election with the senior leadership of the Trump campaign, including the chairman, Paul J. Manafort, and Mr. Trump’s son and son-in-law.

The new accusation is made all the more sinister for its absurd and at times cartoonish details.

Prosecutors contend that Mr. Browder had colluded with an agent of Britain’s foreign intelligence agency, MI6, “to cause the death of S. L. Magnitsky,” by persuading Russian prison doctors to withhold care.

The motive, according to what prosecutors said were intelligence intercepts, was to start a scandal, or “a significant news trigger to discredit the Russian Federation in the eyes of the international community.”

While they were about it, the prosecutors used the so-called intercepts, written in grammatically flawed English, to wrap into the plot two other Kremlin nemeses — Grigory A. Yavlinsky and Aleksei A. Navalny, prominent Russian opposition politicians. The supposed scheme was called Operation Quake.

The prosecutors say that Mr. Browder was assigned the code name Agent Solomon by Western intelligence, while Mr. Navalny was called Agent Freedom.

Referring to Agent Solomon, one filing recounts how he “was offered by proxies in the Russian Federal Penitentiary Service to arrange the termination of any medical services for Magnitsky.”


Russia's actually made this request four times in the past and it's been rejected by Interpol HQ for being blatantly political rather than genuine. How'd it go through this time? Russia used a loophole called "diffusion" to bypass HQ oversight and automatically send the arrest notice to every Interpol member country.
https://euobserver.com/foreign/139582

Quote:
Russia has used Interpol for a fifth time to attack one of its European enemies - British human rights activist Bill Browder.

It called for his arrest and extradition via a "diffusion" that it filed in the international police agency on 17 October, Browder told EUobserver.

It had previously called for his arrest on four other occasions via Interpol alerts called "Red Notices".

Interpol's internal oversight body rejected those on grounds they were politically motivated, but Interpol member states can file diffusions without the same kind of checks.

The diffusions, which are automatically circulated to all 192 members, often stay in national police databases even if Interpol later deletes them from its central system.

"The diffusion notice is a loophole that allows them [Russian officials] to bypass Interpol scrutiny. This is a loophole which is clearly being abused and needs to be closed," Browder told EUobserver on Sunday (21 October).

"It's clear that countries like Russia are serial abusers of Interpol and shouldn't be treated the same as legitimate states," he added.

"Their interaction with Interpol needs to be strictly supervised by non-Russians to ensure compliance with Interpol rules," he said.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welp.


Catalonia Declares Independence; Spain Approves Central Takeover Of Region
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Chronometry



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 547
Location: Middle of Nowhere, England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Welp.


Catalonia Declares Independence; Spain Approves Central Takeover Of Region


This is a bit of a boneheaded decision on everyone's part, really. Catalonia's gonna get stomped, and Spain's gonna look like an arsehole for stomping on them. Nobody wins! Very Happy
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronometry wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Welp.


Catalonia Declares Independence; Spain Approves Central Takeover Of Region


This is a bit of a boneheaded decision on everyone's part, really. Catalonia's gonna get stomped, and Spain's gonna look like an arsehole for stomping on them. Nobody wins! Very Happy


Add, Flemish Beligians's knickers are getting twistdr too. It's no surprise M. Puigdemont went there, and that only Belgium reacted by calling for more dialog, under EU umbrella if needed, between the two parties.

Local politics for the lose Very Happy

I'm betting that whoever loses in the upcoming 21st of December elections will call them unfair and biased.

Any taker?
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:

Apparently no one believes their pain unless a white person translates it first, which is rather problematic.


A sad as it sounds, it's the truth. People can live side by side and still not together, however close they are to one another like on the same floor.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
Taemon wrote:

Apparently no one believes their pain unless a white person translates it first, which is rather problematic.


A sad as it sounds, it's the truth. People can live side by side and still not together, however close they are to one another like on the same floor.

Okay, so you you see now what the problem is? I had the same reaction as you at first, until I read their point of view.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
Sam the Eagle wrote:
Taemon wrote:

Apparently no one believes their pain unless a white person translates it first, which is rather problematic.


A sad as it sounds, it's the truth. People can live side by side and still not together, however close they are to one another like on the same floor.

Okay, so you you see now what the problem is? I had the same reaction as you at first, until I read their point of view.


Nope, not getting your point.

The article didsn't offer their alternative, if they had any, and mentioned they appreciated the documentary's goal and purpose. They're not the target for this documentary, obviously white watchers are. It's point was to awaken some persons to the problem, not those who already suffers from it.

Still an open question to me (past the obvious "goal doesn't justify the mean").
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haven't seen the documentary and the way material is presented makes a huge difference, but what struck me in the article was this:

Quote:
After news breaks of the Manchester bombing, Freeman[the white woman] tells her host, Saima Alvi: “It’s this community that has bred this terrorist.” Later, speaking to camera, Alvi says: “It’s very humiliating that I am pigeonholed, or put in the same box as a terrorist.”

Freeman initially says of Muslims: “You see them and think they’re going to blow something up.” Driving through a Muslim neighbourhood, she says: “You wouldn’t even think this was England.”

But, dressed as a Muslim woman, Freeman experiences hostility from her own neighbours. Afterwards, she says: “It makes me ashamed to live here. I was raging and fuming inside. But I also felt vulnerable. What harm was I doing?”

Quote:
Before taking part in the programme, Freeman had never engaged with any Muslims and admitted to holding stereotypical views.

Freeman and Alvi were both worried about how they would appear. “I had concerns about how I would be framed. I’m not racist. Although, looking back I am surprised at some of my early opinions,” Freeman told the Telegraph.

so maybe part of the point was seeing this woman face up to her own prejudices, and try to get others to do the same? of course, you shouldn't need an example to do that, but people do relate best to people similar to themselves - i can easily imagine someone like freeman watching a program done by a muslim woman and thinking "that's awful, but it's nothing to do with me, because i'm not a racist like those people she's showing" (or more likely, not watching at all because, you know, not a racist - although she seems to hold some pretty racist opinions). maybe someone like freeman will choose to watch it, just because they are like her. after all, you can't change any minds if the minds that need to change don't watch you.

then again, i harbor fantasies of people like bill o'reilly, who is convinced there is no such thing as white privilege and 'black lives matter' is the epitome of a racist movement, waking up one morning to find themselves in the body of a young black man living in detroit or alabama or somewhere. but i admit i am under no illusion that this would teach anyone (other than maybe o'reilly) that he's wrong.
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Nargrakhan



Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super weirdness and fuel for conspiracy theorists, Secret Martin Luther King document included in JFK file release:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/03/politics/martin-luther-king-document-in-jfk-files/index.html

Quote:
President Donald Trump's administration released a new batch of documents about John F. Kennedy's assassination Friday that included a secret FBI analysis that portrayed civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. in a harshly negative light.

The 20-page document attempts to tie the civil rights leader to various communist influences and alleges financial improprieties at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the civil rights organization that he led. The document also contains insinuations and assertions about King's personal life, including extramarital affairs and other sexual improprieties that would have been deeply embarrassing to King at the time.


So the question at hand... why was this tied to JFK assassination records? It really has nothing to do with JFK murder... unless...

Shocked The FBI killed MLK and JFK! Shocked
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside in the world :

Spanish politicians aims for the dumbest category in the next Oscar's awards

That thing goes as fast as a TheDonald's tweet. If not faster.

4 days ago : M. Puigdemont, current political leader in Catalonia, flees to Belgium, in the (vain) hope to get EU and (maybe not so vain) Flemish independant party 's support.

Yesterday : A Spanish judge issued an European arrest warrant, a bit like an international arrest warrant but with lesser reaction time, against M. Puigdemont.

Almost at the same time, a new election is called up for the 21st of December, and in the meanwhile, article 155 which transfer back local powers to Madrid is activated.

Interesting pieces of news: This wasn't at all what the Catalonian Independant party planned for. In their mind, right after their declaration of Independance, Spanish police was to burst in and they were to barricade themselves in the Generalitade (sp), Barcelona's parliament.

Not that I don't appreciate their romanticism, but come on, that was a lame plan!.

Oh, and leaving the country in her time of crisis is sure to go down well with your political base...Catalonia independant party is already looking for another leader.

Waiting with bated breath to see if Madrid can one up this amount of stupid, I know they can do it. But will they?
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:

so maybe part of the point was seeing this woman face up to her own prejudices, and try to get others to do the same? of course, you shouldn't need an example to do that, but people do relate best to people similar to themselves - i can easily imagine someone like freeman watching a program done by a muslim woman and thinking "that's awful, but it's nothing to do with me, because i'm not a racist like those people she's showing" (or more likely, not watching at all because, you know, not a racist - although she seems to hold some pretty racist opinions). maybe someone like freeman will choose to watch it, just because they are like her. after all, you can't change any minds if the minds that need to change don't watch you.

then again, i harbor fantasies of people like bill o'reilly, who is convinced there is no such thing as white privilege and 'black lives matter' is the epitome of a racist movement, waking up one morning to find themselves in the body of a young black man living in detroit or alabama or somewhere. but i admit i am under no illusion that this would teach anyone (other than maybe o'reilly) that he's wrong.


This was my point of view too, not about Bill O'Reily he's a lost cause. Much like sexism it takes sometime some enforced empathy to finally realize something is wrong. Questioning oneself is rarely on top of the daily to-do list. Btw, there are some interesting articles popping up about young men starting to question their views on their relationship with women of their age. Pretty sure Weinstein didn't had that in mind.

What still bugs me is why is the targeted community thinks the method is racist. Taemon seems to get it, but I can't understand her point. Oh well. Lot more stuff to talk about with Lebanon being the new proxy flashpoint between Saudi Arabia and Iran
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what to tell you. You do seem to have all the pieces in place.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://abcnews.go.com/US/10-deadliest-mass-shootings-modern-us-history/story?id=50234345
Quote:
At least 26 people were killed at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, about 40 miles southeast of San Antonio.

That puts it in a tie with the Sandy Hook School shooting for the fourth deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

Four of the top five gun massacres on the list - including the deadliest in Las Vegas just over a month ago -- occurred in just the past year and a half.



I think it's time to set up a White Male Gun-Owner registry to track these potentially dangerous kinds of people. I'm sure Trump would be behind this 100% since he suggested a national Muslim registry, and Muslims are much less of a threat to the average American.
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top comment on Breitbart: "Coulter's law is in effect. The longer they refuse to report the ethnicity and creed of the shooter, the less likely it is that he was a white male Christian."

That is the exact opposite of what actually happens! Exact! And Trump is all "he had many problems (the poor guy)".

ARGL BARGL
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