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shall we do the democrats?
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Who will be the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee?
Hillary Clinton
44%
 44%  [ 12 ]
Bernie Sanders
44%
 44%  [ 12 ]
Lincoln Chafee
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Martin O'Malley
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Jim Webb
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Joe Biden
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
OK, fine, Elizabeth Warren
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
Any of the 14 other declared candidates
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 27

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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:47 pm    Post subject: shall we do the democrats? Reply with quote

since things seem to be more of a tossup now...

(and there really are 19 people who have declared for the democrats - the list is here.)
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more like "when do we have to stop supporting sanders, the one we actually like, and acquiesce to the reality of the mushy infuriating centrism of hillary clinton"
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm starting to wonder if i want biden to run. i would love to have a female president, but i have the same problems with hillary as i did in 2008 - she just has so much baggage, and now the republicans have 7 more years practice coming up with horrible things about her. and yes, she could be more progressive...but sadly, the country is (at best) mushily centrist.

biden would also be centrist, but he's got good general appeal, and experience....but he may not really have the heart to do it this time.

wouldn't it be fun, though, if sanders actually stood a chance?
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KillAllMen



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you not want THIS as your President?


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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hillary has more sponsorship and backing than we have seen in any non-incumbent candidate in as long as I can remember back. She nearly certainly has this in the bag. The only possible contender would be Bernie Sanders, and that's an incredibly remote chance thus far.

However, within the vocal circles of Bernie supporters, they talk up anything they can find that seems even remotely positive and are becoming a hive of groupthink that by now greatly overestimates his chances and his momentum. they are quite similar to the cadre of Ron Paul fanatics in his last presidential runs, in how much they are feeding themselves unrealistic expectations.

We'll see. But it's most likely clinton.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, it's like, goddammit, i actually like bernie sanders. i agree with him on nearly everything. i'm probably going to vote for him. and then he's going to lose, because he refuses to do all the schmoozing and super PAC building and shit that clinton has happily done because she's a veteran politician who knows how this game works and a major part of sanders's identity is refusing to play the game that would actually get him nominated because that game is crooked. so he'll vanish into the ether of the primaries and i'll dutifully march to the polls and vote for clinton and watch her win over whatever sadsack piece of shit drops from the infected prolapsed anus that is the republican party.

meh.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hillary as president wouldn't be too awful, even if she's quite centrist and too hawkish for most strong progressives. At any rate, all progressives essentially have to understand that even if they don't like hillary, particularly, it is a momentous folly to not vote for her anyway, which could conceivably throw social causes back for decades and cause serious harm to our entire system. A republican president being allowed to put new supreme court justices in must absolutely not happen.
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Arc Tempest



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
more like "when do we have to stop supporting sanders, the one we actually like, and acquiesce to the reality of the mushy infuriating centrism of hillary clinton"


This. Of course I'll be voting for her, but I'll be sad I'm not voting for Sanders instead.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just dropped by to say this: while he doesn't have a realistic chance of getting a nod, and as much as I like and admire him, Larry Lessig would make a horrendously horrible president.

That said, whoever does win should definitely 100% nominate Lessig for SCOTUS -- he'd pretty much be the antithesis of Thomas/Scalia.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lessig's campaign is dumber than Trump's, and more hopelessly asinine at its core.

This is an impressive thing to accomplish, honestly, assuming someone isn't literally trying to be dumber than a fucking stump.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish I could vote - I'm basically in the preferably Bernie but otherwise Hillary camp - , shit most democrats are way more preferable than most republicans.
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boehner resigning is a good reason to vote Bernie.

All around the world left-wing people are trying not to be left-wing. Why? Because they accept they may be wrong, perhaps, because they want to avoid confrontation? Electability is the main argument, in the UK and the US right now, but with the other side not open to any sort of compromise this is a terrible idea. Boehner had to leave. Not crazy enough. Why is anyone trying to find a middle ground here? It's been happening for years now, with news outlets going out of their way to prove they don't have a liberal bias by just being massively right-wing, letting nuts onto the news.

Fuck that. Vote for what you think is right, not what you think your neighbours might find acceptable.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the democrats have backed off being "left-wing" because they keep hoping they can compromise with the republicans, and a compromise usually means giving something up. unfortunately, we have an increasing number of republicans who will not compromise over _anything_, even if the result is the political equivalent of shooting themselves in the head (without, alas, the benefits to the rest of us that would accrue if they actually shot themselves in the head). boehner's resignation is because they can't even compromise within the party...as i recall from the news this morning, there is a group of something like 29 tea-partiers who are in the never-surrender group, which is _insane_ - that's only about 10% of the majority party....and yet they are the ones steering the boat. straight onto the rocks, and the hell with the passengers.

so yeah - if your opponent isn't going to agree to anything other than total surrender, it's probably better to stick with your ideals - at least everyone knows what you went down fighting for. and maybe you even win a few converts.
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Professor_Frink



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Sanders. I think he could handle intersectionality better, but I think he's by far got the best platform.

I'm ambivalent about Clinton. I think she's very similar to Obama in that she's a pragmatist, and truly believes in improving the country, but is willing to partake in Faustian bargains in order to do so.

I truly have no idea which presidency would be better. As much as I'd love Bernie Sanders to be president, there's a good chance he'd become another Jimmy Carter. Honest politics, morals, and idealism gets eaten alive by our political system and culture. If Sanders was elected, and was blocked at every turn by the GOP, conservative democrats, and lobbyists, instead of blaming the system we would blame him as an ineffective president.

On the other hand, maybe too much pragmatism and too little idealism is what has driven this march to the right. The democrats have compromised on their principals in order to cooperate with the right, and so extreme conservatives up the ante for what they think is a divisive, attention grabbing issue. So now, we have arguments that Obama is a secret muslim, and that PP chops up and sells live babies.

I don't know. Everything's fucked.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VPs have gotten a lot stronger since carter. i wonder what would happen if saunders had a VP well versed in congressional dealings, who could act as the behind-the-scenes muscle guy. on the other hand, saunders himself has a long history in legislatures (which carter did not have). maybe he's got a better sense of how to get things done than we realize.

....which i guess means i should look up his history of legislation proposed and passed. but it's friday, and i want to go home.
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