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Animal Research for Fun and Profit
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17209
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you think you and i are thinking the same way, you have absolutely no understanding of anything i said.
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its more that you are making assumptions about me and not caring if they are right. Happens all the time.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17209
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

um...
you wrote:
Custodians of life and the planet. Thats a, well, romantic thought i guess, but also pretty stupid.

We are not guardians, we are masters, gods even. Animals exist to serve us in any way we choose. Law of the jungle baby.


me wrote:
i think we have a responsibility to the other life we share the planet with, because we do have the greatest power to harm that other life, to destroy entire species even.
...
i'll also accept water rationing, to save whichever goby it is that may go extinct if the metropolitan water district does whatever it would need to do to let people in san diego water their lawns all summer.


and you think me saying these two sets of statements are not equal is _me_ misinterpreting _you_?
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because i can admit that i feel above the other animals doesnt mean i wanna rape baby seals or whatever you are imagining.

Humans > animals. You said as much yourself.
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Keign



Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 2073
Location: The Blue Nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibian wrote:
Why does the word god have a negative meaning to you? Just because i can admit that i feel above the other animals doesnt mean i wanna rape baby seals or whatever you are imagining.

Humans > animals. You said as much yourself.

Well now you're just being a silly twit. Your manner of addressing the issue lacks any respect for other forms of life, whereas mouse makes it clear that while she respects other life and wishes to preserve it, sacrificing the animals is often the most efficient way to get things done.
That's the key difference I see, anyway. I'm sure there are others.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibian wrote:
Sojobo wrote:
Ibian wrote:
We are not guardians, we are masters, gods even. Lesser people exist to serve us in any way we choose. Law of the jungle baby.

I can find no flaws whatsoever in your reasoning!

And thats (one of the many reasons) why i dont take bleeding heart animal rights activists seriously. Or most other kinds of bleeding hearts for that matter.

I am not a "bleeding heart animal rights activist," and find myself rather bewildered that you would imply I should be characterized as such. An explanation would be appreciated, if it would not unduly inconvenience you.
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your manner of addressing the issue lacks any respect for other forms of life,

No, all it lacks is political correctness. This is intentional. What me and mouse are saying is not very different at all at its core.
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not a "bleeding heart animal rights activist," and find myself rather bewildered that you would imply I should be characterized as such. An explanation would be appreciated, if it would not unduly inconvenience you.

The kind of quip you made is typically done for a lack of rational retort. The people most often found in such a situation are people who argue based on their emotions.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibian wrote:
Quote:
Your manner of addressing the issue lacks any respect for other forms of life,

No, all it lacks is political correctness. This is intentional. What me and mouse are saying is not very different at all at its core.


If you bring back the whole issue to humans > animals, then, yes the whole world agree with you. But, if that is the only message you got from Mouse's 5 alinea post, then you need to work on your reading comprehension.
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the message i had. Whatever else you got from it is all in your head, until such time as you ask me something more specifik.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibian wrote:
The kind of quip you made is typically done for a lack of rational retort. The people most often found in such a situation are people who argue based on their emotions.

It is quite peculiar that you would claim my "quip" was emotion based when it directly mocked your reasoning rather than your lack of sympathy. You seem to have completely misunderstood me. I shall explain my post for you.

You said: "Animals exist to serve us in any way we choose. Law of the jungle baby."

Your conclusion is that it is not immoral to experiment on animals, and your reasoning is that "survival of the fittest" is the dominant/applicable moral code.

I misquoted you, replacing "animals" with "lesser people," pointing out that your reasoning supports the conclusion that it is not immoral to experiment on lesser people exactly as well as it supports the conclusion you intended.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, and is a perfectly rational form of argument.
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Ibian



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said nothing about morals. "In any way we choose" can include choosing to treat them so called "humanely". Or not. You dont know, and you wont know what i think about that, until you ask about it. Assumptions, again.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6461

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad your impressively large human brain is capable of telling the difference between mouse's message of responcibility and restraint with your own message of superiority and dominance.

Or wait, that other thing, where I'm horrified you can't.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10427
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
I am generally okay with animal testing!

Here are some things I am not really okay with though!

Trauma surgeon training in Iraq!

Quote:
In one course, an advanced trauma treatment program he had taken before deploying, he said, the instructors gave each corpsman an anesthetized pig.

“The idea is to work with live tissue,” he said. “You get a pig and you keep it alive. And every time I did something to help him, they would wound him again. So you see what shock does, and what happens when more wounds are received by a wounded creature.”

“My pig?” he said. “They shot him twice in the face with a 9-millimeter pistol, and then six times with an AK-47 and then twice with a 12-gauge shotgun. And then he was set on fire.”

“I kept him alive for 15 hours,” he said. “That was my pig.”

“That was my pig,” he said.


At least they could have bacon and pork chops the next day. Although it'd taste like shit, animals slaughtered under duress taste like shit, the adrenaline ruins the flavor Twisted Evil

Seriously though that is some fucked up shit.

*********************

Also, as my friend Tim Nebel once said "Testing animals for perfume is wrong, but if dropping acid in a bunny's eyes can cure AIDS I'm all for it."
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibian wrote:
I said nothing about morals. "In any way we choose" can include choosing to treat them so called "humanely". Or not. You dont know, and you wont know what i think about that, until you ask about it. Assumptions, again.


Don't behave so childish, you posted an intentionally provacative statement and then attack us for taking it at face value. If you feel like you are misunderstood, then maybe you should clarify your position instead of whining about being misunderstood.
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