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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6301
Location: wasteland style
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Ireland votes no. |
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The cocks.
Source.
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attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose |
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Pontupo
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't completely understand what the changes were. Was this an attempt to make some moves to streamline bureaucracy? I understand it meant the establishment of a president of the EU, but it sounds like a lot more was involved than that... |
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6301
Location: wasteland style
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The treaty, which is designed to help the EU cope with its expansion into eastern Europe, provides for a streamlining of the European Commission, the removal of the national veto in more policy areas, a new president of the European Council and a strengthened foreign affairs post. |
Is what the article says. It's more than that, but I'm no expert. Still, it was viewed as A Good Thing.
No idea how the rest of the EU will respond though. It's 3 million Irish versus 487 million EU'ers.
Ack, I don't like public votes. I bet 90% of the Irish didn't even know what was in the treaty. (Granted, as I've shown, I don't know it in detail either)
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attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose |
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Pontupo
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah I just read an article in the NY Times that suggested that a variety of uninvolved issues were promoted by opposition in messages to the Irish public (like abortion, etc.) and this was the cause of the vote. At the same time, it really is hard to get the public involved in "boring" moves like this one, which is why it might not have been such a bright idea to put it to a public vote (the only country to do so in the EU, no?). |
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Uncle Taylorbell
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3191
Location: Northern England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't it just a further roadblock between 'we, the people', and the decision making process, though? An election to decide on a treaty to dictate the removal of veto powers from our elected ministers, who's hands are already tied on most national policy issues by party politics? |
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Bart
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/glance/index_en.htm
I must admit I'm woefully ignorant about the EU as well, but from this link it would seem that the treaty would strengthen the EU, but also make it more democratic. |
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Mr_Moustache
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 9027
Location: The thing in itself that is Will
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Up yours europe.
But the netherlands and france also said no to it. Basically, for the small countries this is a good thing since "we" arent helped by a more democratic eu.
(non of the western coutnries is, i think.)
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When life gives you lemons, some people make lemonade. I just eat them and make a sour face. |
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6301
Location: wasteland style
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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If we ever want the EU to be more than a glorified trade-union, we need this treaty or at least a treaty like this one.
And veto powers are shit. Some nations are a bit too trigger-happy with it.
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attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose |
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Pontupo
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it desirable for the EU to be more than a glorified trade union? |
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Sam
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 8567
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Pontupo wrote: | | Is it desirable for the EU to be more than a glorified trade union? |
Probably. It depends on whether or not the EU can be an effective mediating body that makes it so that the member nations feel like it is an effective central body and not just a stupid, annoying, niggling bureaucracy. |
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Sam the Eagle
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2276
Location: 192.168.0.1
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Pontupo wrote: | | Is it desirable for the EU to be more than a glorified trade union? |
What would europe be is the question.
Each country has a different take on it, Netherland and France both voted no for completly different reason; afaik Netherlanders wants more money for bucks, French wanted more social conformity within EU.
What I get is Ireland voted no for many reasons, one I understand is you don't have any idea what the current treaty is about. I read the old one (which was naysayed by Holland and France), a good aspirin sandwich helps.
A glorified trade union is good as long as sun is shining and each country gets a decent piece of the pie. Should weather turns fugly, the components are less powerful than their sum. But "Brussel" is a too easy scapegoat, every euro gov is using it to further their own policy. But with situation worsening, it's common to shut one's windows and forget about the neighbourgs.
To sum up, it'd be a good idea to be anything but a glorified trade thingy. But it won't happen any day soon.
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Snorri
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10530
Location: hiding the decline.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Pontupo wrote: | | Is it desirable for the EU to be more than a glorified trade union? |
Probably not.
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Michael
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10264
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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the Loosely Affiliated Nations of Europica
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works for me |
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zeezee
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 4409
Location: saint louis
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael wrote: | the Loosely Affiliated Nations of Europica
...
works for me |
makes for a pleasant acronym
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dogs have owners
cats have staff
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Azmoten
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2199
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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"What are you going to do this summer?"
"Oh, I thought I might just skip through the LANE, you know, see the sights."
I like it.
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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Solid Jackson (From Jingo, by Terry Pratchett) |
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