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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:

someone's probably already written one


okay, found one within ten seconds of playing Google roulette

but it isn't really optimal -- it doesn't take click frenzies into account, and frenzied click frenzies in particular are a big deal, nor does it consider the value of buying, say, ten more of something to get to a hundred and unlock an upgrade that doubles the value of that thing, nor does it calculate when to reset the game

nor does it actually take control
it wouldn't take too much effort to add to it to make it do these things

but nah



Just write an auto clicker.

click every 1 millisecond


You have completely missed the point of the exercise.

That's no fun.

Look, I'll do it in two seconds, off the top of my head:

Code:

thys_brilliant_autoclicker = setInterval(function() { Game.ClickCookie(); }, 1);


boooooring

If you're going to do something like that, it'd be better to just set Game.cookies to Infinity and be done with it



Clicking the big cookie isn't worth very much in this game, anyways, most of the time. Clicking the big cookie at a normal rate during a frenzied click frenzy is worth whole orders of magnitude more cookies than your click-every-millisecond idea.

I'd rather start out with something like this:
Code:

//click the big cookie at a humanly possible rate if there is an especially high value to doing so
setInterval(function() {
  if (Game.clickFrenzy > 0 || (Game.frenzyPower > 100 && Game.frenzy > 0)) {
    Game.ClickCookie();
  }
}, 77);

//click golden cookies and reindeer
setInterval(function() {
  if (Game.goldenCookie.life > 0) {
    Game.goldenCookie.click();
  }

  if (Game.seasonPopup.life > 0) {
    Game.seasonPopup.click();
  }
}, 2000);


because sitting around all day (literally) watching for golden cookies in the endgame is rubbish, and cutting that part out of the game doesn't feel like cheating. Certainly, Orteil's decision to make active play ten times as effective as idling makes for more addictive game mechanics, but I don't have time for that shit.





The interesting part of the exercise is to write the utility function weighing the expected value of buildings, improvements, heavenly chips, and cookies against each other, given a particular goal (most cookies? Highest rate of cookies per second?) , an acceptable probability of failure, and a particular time frame.

Factoring in fast autoclicking would only serve to weight things in favor of cps and click-related upgrades rather than cookies and "Lucky!" bonuses.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: image processing is fun Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:

someone's probably already written one


okay, found one within ten seconds of playing Google roulette

but it isn't really optimal -- it doesn't take click frenzies into account, and frenzied click frenzies in particular are a big deal, nor does it consider the value of buying, say, ten more of something to get to a hundred and unlock an upgrade that doubles the value of that thing, nor does it calculate when to reset the game

nor does it actually take control
it wouldn't take too much effort to add to it to make it do these things

but nah



Just write an auto clicker.

click every 1 millisecond


You have completely missed the point of the exercise.

That's no fun.

Look, I'll do it in two seconds, off the top of my head:

Code:

thys_brilliant_autoclicker = setInterval(function() { Game.ClickCookie(); }, 1);


boooooring

If you're going to do something like that, it'd be better to just set Game.cookies to Infinity and be done with it



Clicking the big cookie isn't worth very much in this game, anyways, most of the time. Clicking the big cookie at a normal rate during a frenzied click frenzy is worth whole orders of magnitude more cookies than your click-every-millisecond idea.

I'd rather start out with something like this:
Code:

//click the big cookie at a humanly possible rate if there is an especially high value to doing so
setInterval(function() {
  if (Game.clickFrenzy > 0 || (Game.frenzyPower > 100 && Game.frenzy > 0)) {
    Game.ClickCookie();
  }
}, 77);

//click golden cookies and reindeer
setInterval(function() {
  if (Game.goldenCookie.life > 0) {
    Game.goldenCookie.click();
  }

  if (Game.seasonPopup.life > 0) {
    Game.seasonPopup.click();
  }
}, 2000);


because sitting around all day (literally) watching for golden cookies in the endgame is rubbish, and cutting that part out of the game doesn't feel like cheating. Certainly, Orteil's decision to make active play ten times as effective as idling makes for more addictive game mechanics, but I don't have time for that shit.





The interesting part of the exercise is to write the utility function weighing the expected value of buildings, improvements, heavenly chips, and cookies against each other, given a particular goal (most cookies? Highest rate of cookies per second?) , an acceptable probability of failure, and a particular time frame.

Factoring in fast autoclicking would only serve to weight things in favor of cps and click-related upgrades rather than cookies and "Lucky!" bonuses.




Except you can make the autoclicker click the target based on pixel value.

Hues that for ya?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are far more interesting games to approach from that particular angle than Cookie Clicker
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 11 year-old is about 3/4 of the way through making his own, simplified version of cookie clicker on scratch.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Later on in the game, the passive clicking is more lucrative than active clicking - but they add these things that take away the power of the passive clicks. Then you have save up a bunch to get rid of those things - and by that time I was well past done playing.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Later on in the game, the passive clicking is more lucrative than active clicking - but they add these things that take away the power of the passive clicks. Then you have save up a bunch to get rid of those things - and by that time I was well past done playing.


wrinklers? You've misinterpreted what they do. They give your cookies back with interest when you squish them (click x3). Effectively they multiply your production by six.


and actively clicking the big cookie becomes worthless pretty much immediately
"neverclick" is on the normal achievements list for a reason


/I've reset 18 times and I've still only made 38 sextillion cookies, aaaaaaaaaaaaa.

lesseee, I need 26315 times that many, and if I double production each reset, log base 2 ... I need to reset at least 15 more times to unlock all of the achievements. That's a month of this game taking up ten minutes of my day, or five hours total. Is this thing worth five hours of my time? ... No.
Hmmmm... that's enough time for me to write the make-the-game-play-itself-optimally script. If I'm gonna sink time in this thing, that would be preferable.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, okay! i assumed that they gave back less than they took or the same amount. But now I'm confused - since they make your cookie production decrease, does that mean the total cookies you get after destroying the winklers is more or less than you would have gotten if they weren't around?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each wrinkler leeches 5% of your cps, and gives back all of the cookies it leeched (with 0.5% interest) when popped, but calculates the amount it's leeching to be the total wither rate of all of the wrinklers on the board, not just its individual 5%

so if you have all ten of them, they each calculate themselves as leeching 50% of your cps, and so they give back 11.55 times what they leeched when they are popped

This means it's worth buying One Mind for the wrinklers, even though it messes up the golden cookie combos somewhat by throwing in 33% wrath cookies into the mix,
but it's not worth buying Communal Brainsweep for anything other than Elder Pledge achievements, unless maybe elder frenzy + reindeer (from Season Switcher) combos turn out to be worth more than regular frenzy + Lucky! combos and frenzy + click frenzy combos combined. I dunno! I haven't written an optimization script just yet.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second Humble Audiobook Bundle has a book about music by David Byrne, a Doctorow novel about immortal people living in Disney World fighting off a conspiracy to modernize it, and you can unlock Fight Club at the $10 and up level. That's 1/3 the asking price at Audible.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US Debt Limit Explained via a short cartoon that makes perfect sense of the issue.
I'm thinking this should be required viewing before any future article or discussion about the debt limit.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17209
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it should definitely be required viewing for all new congresspeople.

and it's a cartoon! they might actually be able to understand it!

(except for the big word, 'apiarists'...someone will have to explain that)
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Finnegan



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but: Gay of Thrones S4E10 (Game of Thrones season finale recap). watch it to the end, trust me, it's worth it.

spoilerific, obviously.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Clicky the image for an article explaining how this map came to be.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

native american faiths, you would have thought, maybe would have eked out a second place somewhere, anywhere. but nooooo, baha'i
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Native American Faiths are too diversified and their populations far too depleted. Even if you misrepresented them all as one faith it wouldn't dispalce anything on that chart. Also Baha'i is popular religion to convert to from Christianity due to a number of similar fundamental moral beliefs. They are very much about charity and good works.

Also, if Athiesm/Agnosticism counted, then the whole USA would probably be a solid colour for that chart.
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