Sinfest Forum Index Sinfest
welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

In the World of They're Going to Kill Us All!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 17, 18, 19  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2) You are just jealous.

So, I think robots can actually be much better at things that humans. They can even learn to react to unknown situations (which is what the human element is there for - okay so I got that from Iron Man). However, I don't think humans will let go of that much control. We will always want some kind of human element involved whether it is a good idea or not.

_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, you're wrong.

It's the same reason we have soldiers getting drunk and passing out while on guard duty. People don't always care enough to do their jobs, and if there's some oversight, say, a y/n prompt before these mostly-autonomous robots use lethal force, some slacker techs will write a bit of script to automate that to always approve, so they can take longer naps.

People may *want* some degree of control to be imposed, but human laziness will ensure that when robots can be fully autonomous, they will be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr_Moustache



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 9123
Location: The thing in itself that is Will

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because were flawed, everything we make is?

Anyways, i dont think it would be a good idea. What would one side do in a conflict if they're human casualties would be near none? I think the threshold for war would be much lower, which is a bad thing.
_________________
When life gives you lemons, some people make lemonade. I just eat them and make a sour face.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10636

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYS!

ROBOTS = DUMB FUCKS

FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS

right now we can reliably make them not walk into a wall 80% of the time

seriously people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't we have the rules for how we want robots to behave and other boundaries set _before_ we develop the technology to break those boundaries?
_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

harumph
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pontupo



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That certainly doesn't seem like our general approach to science. Build it first -> sort it out later.

But yeah, I think there's some real sensibility to at least considering these things ahead of time. I think it's especially important in the cases of robotics/AI and cloning because of that whole "autonomy" thing. The consequences, as science fiction has explored for us to exhaustion, could be pretty dire if we fuck it up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Build it first -> sort it out later.


You're saying that this approach is NOT how we approach things, right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pontupo



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying it is... but shouldn't be. I'm kinda thinking mostly about things like the atomic bomb and about half of pharmacological chemistry... but I also only half mean it because it's really a rather blanket thing to say, isn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It rather is a blanket, but I agree that it is the case all too often. I work in a research department and am constantly sent chasing my tail because the design guys draw up geometry that doesn't have any analytical backing and expect it to work. We've been chasing one problem for almost 3 years now as a result.

Some systems and areas of research require a try-and-see approach, unfortunately. Two-phase flow, for example, isn't very well understood and can't be modeled to the point that experimental iteration is no longer needed. But all too often I see engineers using this as an excuse to pass the buck to the guy at the bottom of the ladder. A responsible and effective approach to new product development should require that the designers define everything that they possibly can before they start getting into specifics. With control system design this is particularly important as changing the scope of functionality slightly can involve major changes to the design details. Fully autonomous robots fall into this category. Defining what we do and do not want them to do should absolutely be done before anyone writes a line of code or sketches a bracket.

Furthermore, the direction that this technology could go (thoroughly explored by the sci-fi writers of the 20th century) represents a paradigm shift that would affect what it means to be human. The conversation defining the bounds on this technology should therefore be carried out in public, rather than in a fictional or research environment. With the very real possibility of achieving this level of robotic sophistication in the near future - made even more apparent by daily headlines like "US drone kills 11" - we need to define an ethics for the field of armed robotics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, you work with some real morons. You should put that story in the Socrates was a Christian thread. Seriously.
_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 16633
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinkeringIdiot wrote:
With the very real possibility of achieving this level of robotic sophistication in the near future - made even more apparent by daily headlines like "US drone kills 11" - we need to define an ethics for the field of armed robotics.


this is just what i was thinking.

not that it will stop someone from making an evil robot, but if you define the ethics beforehand, you have a basis to prosecute for war crimes or the like.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Obama being a meganerd, he may just be willing to push Congress to create legislation on the relevant bits of robotic autonomy. Hrm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYS!

ROBOTS = DUMB FUCKS

FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS

right now we can reliably make them not walk into a wall 80% of the time

seriously people


Case and point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3440
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: DA FURTURE Reply with quote

There's something called neurofuzzy logic guys.

That shit is cash.

It helps autonomous robots that know that they're hitting a wall, and change course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 17, 18, 19  Next
Page 4 of 19

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group