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So long and thanks for all the fights
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Logos



Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 80
Location: Hangin' with J-Z.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: So long and thanks for all the fights Reply with quote

I'm going to tell you a story. I'll try to keep it short, but I want people to understand the full content of how this played out so there's no misunderstandings later.

A few years ago I was a regular Sinfest reader. I liked the comic, in all its odd quirks and self-mocking humor. Then the shift happened where everything went political and I started to lose interest and eventually stopped reading.

Came back a few years later, it was still going strong. Saw the forums still active, got curious... so I decided to do some research on how things played out after the shift since I wasn't there for it when it went down, and digging through forum archives from years ago would just be a mess. I wanted somebody to explain to me what the big picture was. Maybe I was the only one who had an issue with the change?

Holy hell was I wrong.

Pretty much all the stuff I was reading said the same thing: Tatsuya went crazy and became a rabid feminist. So rabid that he often makes contradictory statements, sometimes even in the same comic. Heck, the political spiel is so crazy that some people think he must be trolling!

Okay, stop.

Now, I realize that the trolling potential on the internet is vast, for a variety of reasons. It's harder to recognize sarcasm when it's typed instead of spoken (also, not accompanied by body language, etc, etc), people have more anonymity, and unlike direct conversations where something is spoken and forgotten, posts remain up to be later found by others, so it's easier to fish for reactions. I get that. But if he really IS a troll, I'd think that more than just one or two people would be able to recognize it.

I am skeptical.

So a big question comes to mind. How could he be able to pull off such a thing without it being seen as trolling? If he went full strawman (strawoman?) feminist, how could people not see the obvious signs of it? I have faith in people's intelligence. Give a curious and skeptical person enough time and they can find an answer to just about anything, no matter how deep it's buried - and there are a LOT of curious and skeptical people on the internet.

So I decide to investigate for myself. The plan was simple. Hop back on the forum, fish for some info, see what comes up. I decide to play the role of a Tats-is-a-troll believer just to see how people react. Most people don't believe it, but I also don't get much info. I hang around for a while, making small talk, mentioning the theory a few more times... nothing. Well, I figure I'll stumble on something eventually, so I just play it natural, talk about the comics, mention something about theoretical AI that gets interpreted as a women-hating propaganda spiel by one of the locals...

Wait, what the heeeeeeeeeell?

So, in short order, I get introduced to the feminatics of the forums and learn the full depth of their ideology. An ideology that, amazingly, makes Tatsuya look like a moderate feminist by comparison. This makes me regret fishing to some extent, and makes me think that, perhaps, I should have played it straight instead of playing up anti-feminist role, but live and learn. This also answers my question as to why nobody could recognize Tatsuya as a troll... IF he's a troll at all - that's still up in the air. Simply put, strawoman feminism is actually less extreme than the real thing... unless all the feminists on the forums are also trolls, but that just starts getting into the realm of absurdity, and I'm not going to insult anybody by claiming that.

So, at this point, my mission is done. I've collected all the data I can at this point, and further research is impossible due to the fact that all the femmies shut down any discussions before they even have a chance to start. So I decide it's time to go.

However, as I go I wish to leave with one parting thought regarding... well, all this. Don't worry, I'll keep it fairly short.

You have some good, valid points regarding a great many social issues in our modern society. There are problems, and these problems need to be addressed. However, the way you respond to these issues is not helping. If you want proof of that, look at the rest of the internet. If you go anywhere where they're having a serious political discussion regarding gender politics or gender equality and you mention Sinfest, it's either going to be taken as a joke or as a trolling attempt. While you may view yourselves as the rational ones trying to defend yourself from male oppression, this comic and its community is basically a giant joke to the rest of the internet.

If you're okay with that, great. To each their own. However, don't rant at me like I'm a single fool in a sea of enlightened feminists. It's the other way around. You're a lot of big fish in a really small pond, and out there in the ocean nobody takes you seriously. I would strongly advise you to rethink the way you present your ideas and philosophies if you actually want people to listen to you, otherwise you won't be able to make a difference. If you find that insulting then I'm sorry, but take it up with the rest of that ocean, not with the single trout who decided to swim up this comic's stream and see what could be found there.

Oh, and I'm also undecided on the troll theory. Leaning toward yes based on some things I noticed in some of the more recent comics, but there really isn't enough data to say.

And that's it for me. Goodnight, God bless, and stay safe ya'll. Maybe we'll meet again somewhere in the internet ocean. If so, hopefully it's on better terms than we did here.

Logos, out.
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Pineapple



Joined: 01 Jan 2015
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat. Usually these threads are posted in the comic subforum.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6410
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tl;dr
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 18397
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so now i'm wondering - how many people, in serious discussions about gender politics (or anything else), bring up a comic strip?

i mean, i love the strip and all, but.....
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11269
Location: PDX

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: So long and thanks for all the fights Reply with quote

Logos wrote:
So, in short order, I get introduced to the feminatics of the forums and learn the full depth of their ideology.

No, it's pretty clear you don't understand the ideology at all. More accurately, you've never said anything that makes me think you actually understand it. You also make up stupid words to minimize it and the people who believe in it. So, you know, physician heal thyself.

Quote:
This makes me regret fishing to some extent

We also regret that you went fishing here.


Thanks for the pointless soliloquy. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I would like to have done with this thread actually now that he bust out the tired "It was all ~a game~ to collect information on you amazing specimens" card (puppetmasterminded again? shit, son) is to recall that I have just sat and watched numerous interactions with Logos against the general community that has barnacled up in the comic discussion subforum.

The best thing I could give him credit for is to note that yes there are a handful of posters he was regularly trying to pseudodebate with who are nutty manic posters who splurged weird manic posts and are a tad bit obsessive with the comic.

Beyond that though there's an obvious and long running trend of when he is out of his league and failing to substantiate himself and in turn revealing he was not making sound points and just honestly not doing a great job. So now, of course, it was trolling!

I wish to challenge this narrative with, if possible, the Logos Greatest Hits award. May I ask the people assembled to give me a sort of top ten quotes of exchanges in which he revealed his shortcomings?
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadly, i don't think he was even good enough to generate a good catch-phrase.

although the whole "TAT IS TROLLING HIS OWN COMIC" thing is a bit different.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
What I would like to have done with this thread actually now that he bust out the tired "It was all ~a game~ to collect information on you amazing specimens" card (puppetmasterminded again? shit, son) is to recall that I have just sat and watched numerous interactions with Logos against the general community that has barnacled up in the comic discussion subforum.


one of these days one of these goobers is going to get stomped in an argument and they'll pull the "oh ho but it was all a SOCIAL EXPERIMENT ZOMGZORZ" and we'll be all "ha of course it was loser" and they'll be all "OH HO BUT CLAIMING THAT IT WAS ALL A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT WAS JUST A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and we will be all "what oh no the burn it is so sick" except not really

metadouchery
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9915

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My subtle machinations to ensure that this community entertained itself with Logos' insufficiently credible post-hoc justification that it was an intending act designed to collect information is an intending act designed to collect information, which means that Logos' masterminding was really all part of my own masterminding

i tell you hwhat, i am the ultimate puppetmaster engineer of social experiments


Last edited by Sam on Thu May 07, 2015 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sam



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6410
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well yes

but what if

the whole time

i was playing devil's advocate

OHHHHHHHHHHHH NOW THE VERACITY OF THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE COLLECTED VIA YOUR INFORMATION-COLLECTING APPENDAGE IN LOGOS WHO WAS IN REALITY COLLECTING INFORMATION IS COMPLETELY COMPROMISED

which just goes to show 9/11 was an inside job by the International Paruesis Association WAKE UP SHEEPLE
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Sam



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jet fuel can't melt steel beams, debra
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Drooling Fan Grrl



Joined: 02 Feb 2015
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I wish I knew where the "I'm leaving!" strip is...
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11269
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
May I ask the people assembled to give me a sort of top ten quotes of exchanges in which he revealed his shortcomings?

At the end of his masturbatory, self-satisfying rant he says
Quote:
If you're okay with that, great. To each their own. However, don't rant at me...

I think that just about perfectly sums up Logos in one swell foop.



And now we dance.


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