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I give up (Scores die in Israeli air strikes)
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The Highlord



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 551

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Pixi-san wrote:
nathan wrote:
And so long as the Palestinians are willing to act violently in response, they will forfeit any moral high ground.


" The palestinians deserve what they got "

I think there's a difference between what he said and what you said he said.

Shush you, I am using snark to lend my position a platform.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:
Israel has broken the ceasefire, renwed bombings in gaza.


Source?. Last I heard Tsahal was in the final evacuation stage.

nathan wrote:
And so long as the Palestinians are willing to act violently in response, they will forfeit any moral high ground.


Terrorist claiming to get the moral high ground is ludicrous at best. Should the Israeli government allow itself to sink at their level, which they did, they can't claim any moral ground whatsoever too.

In about one or two weeks UN will come up with a rough amount of what would rebuilding the place will cost. The irking question is, however their labeled, Hamas still hold the ground in Gaza (*) so who will manage the reconstruction funds?. It would be highly ironic, and underline that moral highground's battle was a lame idea from the start, that the end benefit, as far as all warring parties are concerned, from that slaughter would be to make Hamas a de facto "official" partner or face the risk to be considered as uncaring to the plight of the civilians.


(*) : There are reports that Fatah members are being killed in large numbers in Gaza by Hamas most likely to wipe out any alternative way to control the funding. Hamas claims those were collaborators from a piece in the Independant. While it might be true in some cases, my gut feeling is it was a too good an opportunity for Hamas to pass.
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Pixi-san



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Israelis have learned all too well. Provoke your "enemies" by denying them water, food, medicines, a means to make a living, room to live, a means to get out of poverty. Then when they strike out in desperation call them terrorists and kill them indiscriminately. The Israelis have learned too well.
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Uncle Taylorbell



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixi-san wrote:
The Israelis have learned all too well. Provoke your "enemies" by denying them water, food, medicines, a means to make a living, room to live, a means to get out of poverty. Then when they strike out in desperation call them terrorists and kill them indiscriminately. The Israelis have learned too well.


If they've learned it so well, why do their actions still provoke world-wide dissent?
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Taylorbell wrote:
Pixi-san wrote:
The Israelis have learned all too well. Provoke your "enemies" by denying them water, food, medicines, a means to make a living, room to live, a means to get out of poverty. Then when they strike out in desperation call them terrorists and kill them indiscriminately. The Israelis have learned too well.


If they've learned it so well, why do their actions still provoke world-wide dissent?


Prior history, and instantaneous mass communication.
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Uncle Taylorbell



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They didn't learn all that well, then.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Taylorbell wrote:
They didn't learn all that well, then.


I don't believe that was the point Pixie was trying to make.
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gally912



Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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Location: Afghandi-land. Like candy-land, only not as nice.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixi-san wrote:
The Israelis have learned all too well. Provoke your "enemies" by denying them water, food, medicines, a means to make a living, room to live, a means to get out of poverty. Then when they strike out in desperation call them terrorists and kill them indiscriminately. The Israelis have learned too well.


Your post not only reeks of "big bad israel" media, but it is just not factually sound.

In case you are unaware of this, members of the nation of Palestine have attacked, been attacking, and will continue to attack the state of Israel- before, during, and after the enclosure of gaza. Israel has been condemned in the western world for this engagement and its last one in Lebanon.

Until the either the Israelis or the Palestinians remove Hamas from power, and a government based on a platform of peace is elected/put in place, than there will be no end to the violence, and the Palestinians will still be one of the parties at fault.

Even with a stable 'good' Palestinian government, I doubt the attacks on Israel would fully stop. I toss that on the "islamo-fascist extremists". But then Israel would be far more hesitant to take military action if both governments were working towards mutual agreement.
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gally912



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Location: Afghandi-land. Like candy-land, only not as nice.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:

Terrorist claiming to get the moral high ground is ludicrous at best. Should the Israeli government allow itself to sink at their level, which they did, they can't claim any moral ground whatsoever too.

There is a quote by Ralph Peters that I am fond of; (though a journalist I respect greatly, I doubt it was his original thought)

"There is no Morality in Defeat"

The worst thing a nation can do is bring itself into a war (and intent is critical here) and lose. No greater sin can be committed by a government. War is not a basketball game where you can pat yourself on the back for "good sportsmanship" after a loss. To lose is to have a lot of your people die. A lot of your soldiers, your civilians. And the fate of your people could very well be in jeopardy- to end up butchered, slaves, or simply lorded over against their will.

So when Israel has been on the defensive and under constant threat for the last half-century- and none of the previous conflicts have managed to end the violence against itself- sometimes morality has to become a lower priority. The cost of your kinsmen and your peoples lives against the lives of those who wish you harm needs to be weighed. And it has been weighed- in every war fought in existence.

Israel has reached the point its not willing to lose any more of its own.


Now, I'm willing to say that *morality* has been lost to either side at this point. But I will say Israel has taken a higher road than Hamas- it has the capability to wipe the threat against itself from the map: and hasnt.
The same would not be said if the tables were turned.
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kame



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gally912 wrote:

Now, I'm willing to say that *morality* has been lost to either side at this point. But I will say Israel has taken a higher road than Hamas- it has the capability to wipe the threat against itself from the map: and hasnt.
The same would not be said if the tables were turned.


You're right gally, let's throw them a big parade for not committing mass fucking genocide!
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gally912 wrote:
blah blah


Someone who advocated the slaughter of enough civilians to finally cut off the edge of war is arguing about ethic.

I'll take 'who is a waste of sperm?' for 2000$.
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Mr_Moustache



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, well, gally has already adequately proven to be a total idiot. Who, might I say, I wouldnt shed a tear for if it so happend to be that his mother had had him aborted.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that he said Pixi's post "reeks of 'big bad israel' media." In a country that puts support of Israel second only to pride in our own country, it's ironic to twist the "liberal media" label to suit any need. Certainly, our Presidential candidates were taken to task on their position on Israel (and Joe the Plumber, foreign relations guru that he is, agreed that "a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel."), and our elected officials at almost any level are graded on their support for Israel. Yet, in order to explain why some people might disagree with the actions taken by Israel, we can always count on the media - they have a liberal bias, support the gay agenda and now are anti-Israel.

Thank goodness there's one evil in the world that supports everything conservatives hate and is so easy to point at in fear. Don't like what someone says? They must have been brainwashed by the media! Nevermind that as an argument tactic it's akin to claiming your opponent is possessed by the devil, and that even people who watch the news can make arguments with true conclusions... but golly it feels good to dig at people who disagree with you by suggesting they're part of the uninformed, brainwashed masses who can't think for themselves and simply parrot what they hear on TV.

Oh... gally... if only I could meet you in person. I'd love to see how deep your understanding goes when you can't refer to Google. Then we'd know who parrots information from the media.
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Yorick



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Moustache wrote:
yes, well, gally has already adequately proven to be a total idiot. Who, might I say, I wouldnt shed a tear for if it so happend to be that his mother had had him aborted.

Are you suggesting post-partem abortion?
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Mr_Moustache



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd see it rather as a correction.
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