Sinfest

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

I... I don't understand.

Agamemnon · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject:

My post that you replied to was actually a relpy to MT. I was arguing the same perspective as you.
_________________
-Agamemnon.....but you can call me Jake.

P: They don't know we know they know we know. And Joey, you can't say anything!

J: Couldn't if I wanted to.

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

I... I don't understand.

Major Tom · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7562

instinct already has the answers, it doesn't need questions.

doesn't that imply understanding?

Agamemnon · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject:

Agamemnon · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject:

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

it implies... instinct. it doesn't even know it has the answers. it just does what it does. maybe you can call that understanding, but it's not really conscious of itself as understanding anything. it has knowledge, but no way to apply that knowledge to "figuring things out", like why and what.

Major Tom · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7562

Agamemnon · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject:

Right, but is there an awareness of "doing"? Would that not have a name?

Is the motivation that wouldn't have a name, therefore the "why" I mentioned.

I'm losing myself here, so maybe I'll just let you two work it out and try to follow you. Very Happy

_________________
-Agamemnon.....but you can call me Jake.

P: They don't know we know they know we know. And Joey, you can't say anything!

J: Couldn't if I wanted to.

Major Tom · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7562

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

no of course not, but you have to start with a question, and the ability to ask them. and then you add this additional knowledge or understanding to instinct, and you develop the ways and means to make your life easier (or more complicated).

things tend to snowball, once you start applying knowledge, or once you start the process of self-inquiry.

Major Tom · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7562

hmm, roadblock.

you believe that, by definition, one can possess understanding only as the outcome of a logical process (or a process, in any case).

and, if understanding is not achieved, it is not "understanding".

i think i disagree.

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

yes, I think that is what I am saying. understanding has to be achieved.

Major Tom · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 7562

if you could explain exactly what it is that is acheived, i might be able to cite the 'free lunch' opportunities we have.

that is, if there is a thing that is achieved, that is separate from the pursuit itself. the goal, the prize...y'know.

rm · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 4073

you want me to define understanding in concrete terms and in a way that explains how it is different from instinctual knowledge and how it is achieved and what benefit its achievement gives us?

give me some time.