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An odd commentary on current events...
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Idlethought



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Seattle, WHAAAAAA?!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apathetic till they lose their jobs or someone taxes their income.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1552
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's still not very directed anger. So far it's had very little constructive influence on things. I'd like to think it got Obama elected for the right reasons, but like I said in a different thread if the only opposition candidate to Bush had been a potted plant the plant would have won.

When the Dems took the majority in the house and senate they claimed it was a mandate from the american people that the democratic approach was better, but in fact it was just straight up backlash against the republicans and in one case a potted plant actually did get more votes than the republican incumbent and in another case the voters voted for a guy they knew was dead. That's not a mandate. That's just a big FUCK YOU to the republicans.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
that's still not very directed anger. So far it's had very little constructive influence on things. I'd like to think it got Obama elected for the right reasons, but like I said in a different thread if the only opposition candidate to Bush had been a potted plant the plant would have won.


to be fair - not bush, mccain/palin.

a couple of quite good candidates ran against bush, and lost.

and considering that people actually seem to be talking about cheney as a viable candidate in 2012, bush probably _could_ win again - dammit.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOPSIE.... A little very directed anger leaking out there. Still, having said that McCain really disappointed me when he toed the party line and called it integrity. I had hopes he might have the makings of a non-deluded republican. Party loyalties are part of the bigger problem though and the democrats aren't much better than the republicans on that score. Ideology should come after the percieved needs of the public not before. Perhaps peppered with at least a slight basis in objective evidence.
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gally912



Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 661
Location: Afghandi-land. Like candy-land, only not as nice.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
Ideology should come after the percieved needs of the public not before. Perhaps peppered with at least a slight basis in objective evidence.


?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideology as in political ideology.

and the objective evidence bit says, don't quash global warming bills just because people don't want to believe in global warming and believe the bill will destroy their livelyhood, if there is good evidence that global warming is real.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put another way party ideology (IE what they are about) has taken on a bit of a life of it's own. Not only is some of it not based on any real evidence (in point of fact the Neo-cons ignored the evidence based approach wherever it disagreed with the way they thought things oughta be) but I think both parties have gotten a little out of touch with their constituents. The republican party might do well to re-invent itself after the last couple of decades of retardedness. The Dems should probably take a good hard look at where the republicans went wrong.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mouse you clarified it much better than I did. Smile


I'm kinda disgusted with the lot of them in general. Having said that, I feel no shame, even as a registered republican, in saying that I think Obama has the potential to make a real difference. It would be nice if the bickering bastards in the house and senate would take one second to put their party loyalties aside and DO THEIR JOB.
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Kanye West



Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo Eboy, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish, but Reasonably Mad is one of our greatest lurkers of all time!
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gally912



Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 661
Location: Afghandi-land. Like candy-land, only not as nice.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
Ideology should come after the percieved needs of the public not before. Perhaps peppered with at least a slight basis in objective evidence.


mouse wrote:
ideology as in political ideology.

and the objective evidence bit says, don't quash global warming bills just because people don't want to believe in global warming and believe the bill will destroy their livelyhood, if there is good evidence that global warming is real.


E-boy wrote:
Put another way party ideology (IE what they are about) has taken on a bit of a life of it's own. Not only is some of it not based on any real evidence (in point of fact the Neo-cons ignored the evidence based approach wherever it disagreed with the way they thought things oughta be) but I think both parties have gotten a little out of touch with their constituents. The republican party might do well to re-invent itself after the last couple of decades of retardedness. The Dems should probably take a good hard look at where the republicans went wrong.



???

I know I'm not the best at deductive reasoning here, but I'm pretty sure those are contradictory statements.
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nathan



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
We no longer have a fairness doctrine, which is what mandated equal time. There is NO equal time mentality in the news media - there is only a desire to increase ratings, in order to increase ad revenue. If they can pull in more viewers by questioning global warming, they do it. It has nothing to do with equal anything.


I have to disagree. Viewed at the corporate/establishment level I think your interpretation holds true, but I continually hear people I believe to be genuinely well-intentioned (such as NPR's Neal Conan) go out of their way to give time to the other side, even when it's demonstrably absurd. It's a deeper problem than simple profit incentive. I thoroughly believe there has been a severe shift in the philosophy and self-perception of journalists: it's not that they don't believe an objective reality exists, but they no longer believe it is the role of the media to determine what is and is not true. Rather, journalists act (and shockingly often explicitly claim) that their proper function in a democracy is "to present the argument" in question. Deciding what is or is not true, in their opinion, is the sole responsibility of the viewer.

The fourth estate is no longer a check, merely a balance.
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a minute I didn't understand what you meant then I re-read mouse's comment. She made a valiant effort to decode my sleep deprived ramblings but missed part of my point.

Republicans and Democrats put their primary loyalty with their party and not their constituents. I suppose it's assumed that if you're a registered republican you automatically share all these values and ideas. I think the common phrase among modern voters of "picking the lesser of two evils" shows just how out of touch they've gotten. This is why they can't see just how retarded the infighting is over the health care bill.

I hope I said it better that time.

It's mostly a statement of opinion.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan wrote:
Dogen wrote:
We no longer have a fairness doctrine, which is what mandated equal time. There is NO equal time mentality in the news media - there is only a desire to increase ratings, in order to increase ad revenue. If they can pull in more viewers by questioning global warming, they do it. It has nothing to do with equal anything.


I have to disagree. Viewed at the corporate/establishment level I think your interpretation holds true, but I continually hear people I believe to be genuinely well-intentioned (such as NPR's Neal Conan) go out of their way to give time to the other side, even when it's demonstrably absurd. It's a deeper problem than simple profit incentive. I thoroughly believe there has been a severe shift in the philosophy and self-perception of journalists: it's not that they don't believe an objective reality exists, but they no longer believe it is the role of the media to determine what is and is not true. Rather, journalists act (and shockingly often explicitly claim) that their proper function in a democracy is "to present the argument" in question. Deciding what is or is not true, in their opinion, is the sole responsibility of the viewer.

The fourth estate is no longer a check, merely a balance.


Well said.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idlethought wrote:
I think the Daily Show is a damn good source for both news and entertainment. Additionally, I think its reliability as a primary news source is limited.


You're an idiot. Stewart himself, in that much ballyhooed Crossfire interview, made no bones about the fact that the Daily Show is explicitly NOT a news program. John Stewart is an entertainer who gets his material from the news, just like the conservative pundits you love to hate.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Daily Show, it's funny as hell. But I'm not credulous enough to think it's got any significant news value, or self-important enough to think that John Steward is objective because I find myself agreeing with him most of the time.
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nathan



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you define "news value" ?
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