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Sen. Dimint (R-SC) supports the coup in Honduras
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Him



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Sen. Dimint (R-SC) supports the coup in Honduras Reply with quote

I think this speaks for itself.
¨
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/61247-kerry-blocks-demint-delegation-to-honduras#

Kerry blocks DeMint trip to Honduras
By Jordan Fabian - 10/01/09 05:55 PM ET
Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has blocked Sen. Jim DeMint’s (R-S.C.) trip to Honduras slated to begin Friday, according to DeMint's office.

But the chairman's office claimed that the DeMint trip was stopped because the South Carolina Republican is blocking two of President Barack Obama's nominations: Auturo Valenzuela, Obama’s nominee to be assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere Affairs, and Tom Shannon, the current assistant secretary and nominee to be ambassador to Brazil.


DeMint’s office informed The Hill of Kerry’s decision Thursday afternoon.



On Thursday morning, the freshman Republican announced that he would lead a congressional delegation to Honduras on Friday ahead of the country’s Nov. 29 elections. The U.S. State Department, which acknowledges ousted President Manuel Zelaya as the legitimate ruler of the Central American nation, has said it will not recognize the contests because of ongoing political turmoil.

“No U.S. Senator has yet been to Honduras to assess facts of crisis. [Kerry] & Obama admin using bullying tactics to hide truth,” DeMint, who also sits on the Foreign Relations panel, said on Twitter after he heard the trip would not occur.

"@JohnKerry (Foreign Rel. chair) trying to hide truth to protect Zelaya, blocking our fact-finding trip to Honduras at last minute," DeMint also tweeted late Thursday afternoon.

DeMint's office followed with a statement. "These bullying tactics by the Obama administration and Senator Kerry must stop, and we must be allowed to get to the truth in Honduras. Not a single U.S. Senator has traveled to Honduras to learn the facts on the ground.

"While this administration has failed to act decisively in Afghanistan, it is has no problem cracking down on a democratic ally and one of the poorest nations in Latin America," DeMint added. "Now, President Obama and Democrats' blind support for this would-be dictator and friend of Hugo Chavez will prevent members of Congress from learning the truth first hand."

Kerry spokesman Frederick Jones responded Thursday evening that "Senator DeMint’s statement wins an A for ‘audacity.’"

"The Foreign Relations Committee always prefers to operate in a bi-partisan and collegial fashion, and it did so when it approved these two nominees by votes of 14 to 4 for Mr. Shannon and 15 to 4 for Mr. Valenzuela," Jones told The Hill in a statement. "But now Sen. DeMint refuses to let the nominations of two distinguished public servants even be considered on the floor of the Senate."

"When Senator DeMint lifts these holds and allows these individuals to receive an up or down vote on the Senate floor, the Committee will approve his travel to Honduras, a country that is in the middle of delicate, political crisis.”


Honduras has experienced political turmoil since June, when the Honduran military deposed Zelaya after a supreme court ruling ordering his removal. The now-exiled president had attempted to change the country's constitution in part to eliminate presidential term limits.

DeMint has long objected to the Obama administration's response to the crisis, saying they should shun Zelaya, not promote his return to power.

The United States does not recognize the de facto government led by President Roberto Micheletti. Honduras’ acting government has hoped that the November elections would put an end to the political crisis there.

Zelaya’s ouster has divided members of Congress. Many Republicans accused Zelaya, who is a left-leaning figure, of acting unconstitutionally to extend his term as president. Many Democrats stood behind Zelaya and alleged the coup was an undemocratic power grab.

Kerry has frequently criticized the acting regime for shunning diplomatic attempts to resolve the crisis. In early September, he praised a vote to slash $30 million in aid to the country in reaction to the ouster.

The 2004 Democratic presidential nominee also demanded that Zelaya be returned to power under the conditions of a negotiated agreement with Costa Rican President Oscar Arias.

“I strongly support Costa Rican President Arias’s efforts to restore democracy with the conditioned return of President Zelaya,” Kerry said after the aid reduction. “The coup regime has engaged in undemocratic practices that cast a dark shadow over elections scheduled for November.”

Kerry echoed the stance of the U.S. government, which also backs supports restoring Zelaya to power. Under the terms of the agreement, Zelaya would return to office with limited power then leave office when his term expires in December.

DeMint first announced the delegation’s trip on Twitter, a statement that was later confirmed by his office.

“Leading delegation to Honduras tomorrow to support Nov 29 elections. Hondurans should be able to choose their own future,” he wrote. The identities of the lawmakers who planned to travel with DeMint are unknown.

Under the current constitution, both Micheletti and Zelaya are ineligible for re-election.
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11bulletstop



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Supreme Court ordered the guys removal from office. The military responded. Honestly, the US military is sworn to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same".

If a US president acts un-constitutionally and the US Supreme Court were to order his removal, I would be bound by my oath to take part in any military action to remove the domestic threat. Orders from the President are obeyed only if they are lawful and once he acts unconstitutionaly his orders would no longer be lawful.


So yeah, Afghanistan and Iraq.... I got no answer for that.


Anyways, I support the coup and I support the upcoming elections.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My real question on this is, are conditions after things calmed down likely to be better with the new government than they were before the coup? If so, the new gov. (still democratic, and more so than the old pres. was trying to make it) deserves at least some support, in my opinion. I mean, it's not like they're trying to go communist or something insane like that.

I don't know enough to make any sort of educated guess, though, so I don't feel I can throw my support (not that it's worth anything in this matter) to either side.
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Vox Raucus



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, aren't you commies all about coups and stuff, y'know overthrowing the bourgeois and what have you? Viva la revolution and that sort of thing? Are you posting this as criticism, or as support?

I'm confused.
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't got enough facts to weigh in just yet. It does seem a bit permature for anyone to start throwing the 'conspiracy' flag though.

As for a fact finding mission I've never thought politicians made particularly good investigators. What exactly are his qualifications for the work? Oh he's a paper pusher? Great hes' the guy I want looking into things over there.... NOT.

Bullet stop: I've always thought the particular wording of the oath of enlistment was important in that it puts defense of the constitution before following the orders of the commander in chief. The scenario you bring up would be a messy one though as more than likely at least some of the military would back the president and we'd have ourselves a little civil war. Ugly thought. Soldiers and sailors are expected to know when not to obey an order but unlawful orders are rarely as black and white as folks make them out to be and the penalties for being wrong are enormous. Frankly the idea of finding myself in a situation to make such a call scared the crap out of me. I like to think I'd make the correct call and be willing to err on the side of putting myself in prison.

It's nice to know I'm not the only person who thought about those things.
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11bulletstop



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's true that right now it's more of a waiting game. In the future we'll know if the coup is actually better for the country, but from the perspective of what we know right now I think the coup was the better choice and hopefully hindsight won't prove us(the supporters) wrong.

E-boy: Yeah, unlawful orders are seriously grey in many aspects and situations. I've been in situations where the context made an order seem like the right thing to do and later realized how wrong it was. Or maybe it was wrong. Or maybe it was right. Or maybe I fucked up. Or maybe I did the right thing. Or maybe I'll never fucking know and that's something I've got to live with: the guilt of not knowing. How can I be so fucked up that I dont' know what's right or wrong? I don't have an answer for that one either.

Fuck it and pass the Disarrano.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im wondering how the article matches the thread title.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Im wondering how the article matches the thread title.


Quote:
DeMint has long objected to the Obama administration's response to the crisis, saying they should shun Zelaya, not promote his return to power.


Even that quote doesn't really have him supporting the coup, just that he thinks Zelaya should be out (one must assume there's a procedure in Honduras for replacing the pres. if he's impeached, as the Sup. Court order effectively did). The rest of it just supports him trying to go on a fact finding mission, and supporting democratic elections. Now, him being blocked from going? I can't see anything leaning towards that being anything but a partisan move by the Democrats. *shrug*
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh so it HIM matches the title, and is generally just a subpoint to the actual article which spends more time talking about the political maneuvering in congress rather than anyones actual stance on the matter.
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Im wondering how the article matches the thread title.


"'@JohnKerry (Foreign Rel. chair) trying to hide truth to protect Zelaya, blocking our fact-finding trip to Honduras at last minute,' DeMint also tweeted late Thursday afternoon"

Certainly sounds like he supports the coups there.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose, but the thrust of the article isnt about that, its about the political maneuvering. A case could be made that he supports it, a case could also be made that its a tentative position, based on not knowing all the details, ergo the fact finding trip.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methink Him meant that guy supported -both- sides. Darn you, darn you all US senators
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I suppose, but the thrust of the article isnt about that, its about the political maneuvering. A case could be made that he supports it, a case could also be made that its a tentative position, based on not knowing all the details, ergo the fact finding trip.


I wouldn't trust a congressman or senator to investigate their own backside.
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Him



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both sides? You do know that the new elections are universally seen as illegtimate, given the current military coup? And condemning Zelayas, the democratically elected president, while claiming the coup makers to be an "democratic ally", well, how much more explicit does he have to get?
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:
Both sides? You do know that the new elections are universally seen as illegtimate, given the current military coup? And condemning Zelayas, the democratically elected president, while claiming the coup makers to be an "democratic ally", well, how much more explicit does he have to get?


I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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