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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2717
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Snorri wrote: | | Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | They are a preventable one, assuming you can get 2/3 of the members of congress or 2/3 of the state legislatures to ask congress to remove the 2nd amendment.
Ergo...not really all that preventable |
I think you're missing the point. Congress could of course try to outlaw people dying of the flu but it wouldn't actually have any effect.
To a lesser extent, people who own pools and cars and shit own things that are so socially acceptable it would be ridiculous to outlaw them. Considering the latest news we might as well outlaw pants because the British injure themselves on them so much. |
Owning a gun is more socially acceptable than smoking in a lot of places, clearly we should outlaw tobacco sales...especially since it also kills so many more people a year than firearms.
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Sam
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 8835
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Snorri wrote: | Exactly!
Doesn't that mean that the chances of getting shot while carrying a gun outside are increased? |
Spurious correlations muddle that one up seriously. You could just as easily claim that the inverse is true. That people who are at high risk of getting shot in the first place tend to carry guns as a reaction to their environment.
And that's true, to an extent I won't claim to measure with any authority, but still there. If you profiled people who actually carry a piece on them, most of them are going to be people like street urchins and folks who run liquor stores and pawn shops in the wrong parts of cities like Baltimore or Detroit. |
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd go further to say that while they carry those guns for "protection" that they are highly likely in those circumstances to use them in ill advised ways. Such as attempting to retrieve them while somone else has a gun pointed at them. This is a form of stupidity that's easily corrected without banning guns themselves.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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Mr_Moustache
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 9122
Location: The thing in itself that is Will
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Snorri wrote: | | Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | They are a preventable one, assuming you can get 2/3 of the members of congress or 2/3 of the state legislatures to ask congress to remove the 2nd amendment.
Ergo...not really all that preventable |
I think you're missing the point. Congress could of course try to outlaw people dying of the flu but it wouldn't actually have any effect.
To a lesser extent, people who own pools and cars and shit own things that are so socially acceptable it would be ridiculous to outlaw them. Considering the latest news we might as well outlaw pants because the British injure themselves on them so much. |
Owning a gun is more socially acceptable than smoking in a lot of places, clearly we should outlaw tobacco sales...especially since it also kills so many more people a year than firearms. |
I am all in favor for that.
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When life gives you lemons, some people make lemonade. I just eat them and make a sour face. |
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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at what point exactly do we draw the line?
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2717
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Also, pools, cars, and tobacco are not enshrined rights in the incredibly difficult to alter law of the land.
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
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You don't think people wouldn't cite the bill of rights?
I'm interested to know, because of your general tone here, why it is you think the right to bear arms is ridiculous? I don't own a gun myself and I'm not a card carrying member of the NRA but I still don't see the problem here. Responsible gun owners certainly aren't the problem. Making guns illegal certainly won't fix the problem. So I'm puzzled by your attitude.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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gally912
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 661
Location: Afghandi-land. Like candy-land, only not as nice.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| E-boy wrote: | | I'd go further to say that while they carry those guns for "protection" that they are highly likely in those circumstances to use them in ill advised ways. Such as attempting to retrieve them while somone else has a gun pointed at them. This is a form of stupidity that's easily corrected without banning guns themselves. |
I dunno about you, but if has gotten to the point that a gun is pointed at your person, things are bad enough that I'd refrain from calling the action "stupid" and lean more towards "survival instinct".
I've carried a gun on and off for years. When stateside, my primary concealed weapon stays in my car (readily accessible), and I'll holster it when I feel the situation might warrant it. When traveling in Newark, walking home or escorting someone home late at night, etc. I almost feel naked without it.
But, it is my view, that laws designed to restrict or remove firearms only take them out of the hands of people who will be abiding the law anyway. I'm inclined to believe that the people who murder, rob, rape, or any other violent crime committed with a gun are not going to be stopped by the fact the only gun they could get was an illegal one. Just sayin.
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Things are seldom as they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse. |
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CTrees
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3612
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| gally912 wrote: | | I'm inclined to believe that the people who murder, rob, rape, or any other violent crime committed with a gun are not going to be stopped by the fact the only gun they could get was an illegal one. Just sayin. |
Or, it'll go the way of the UK, with people using knives for all those things enough that they're trying to ban knives with points. Cutting down on crime isn't achieved by restricting types of weapons; it's achieved by changing the social factors that cause it in the first place. |
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| gally912 wrote: | | E-boy wrote: | | I'd go further to say that while they carry those guns for "protection" that they are highly likely in those circumstances to use them in ill advised ways. Such as attempting to retrieve them while somone else has a gun pointed at them. This is a form of stupidity that's easily corrected without banning guns themselves. |
I dunno about you, but if has gotten to the point that a gun is pointed at your person, things are bad enough that I'd refrain from calling the action "stupid" and lean more towards "survival instinct".
I've carried a gun on and off for years. When stateside, my primary concealed weapon stays in my car (readily accessible), and I'll holster it when I feel the situation might warrant it. When traveling in Newark, walking home or escorting someone home late at night, etc. I almost feel naked without it.
But, it is my view, that laws designed to restrict or remove firearms only take them out of the hands of people who will be abiding the law anyway. I'm inclined to believe that the people who murder, rob, rape, or any other violent crime committed with a gun are not going to be stopped by the fact the only gun they could get was an illegal one. Just sayin. |
Must... resist urge... to make... tiny dick jokes.
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Unnamed?
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| gally912 wrote: | | E-boy wrote: | | I'd go further to say that while they carry those guns for "protection" that they are highly likely in those circumstances to use them in ill advised ways. Such as attempting to retrieve them while somone else has a gun pointed at them. This is a form of stupidity that's easily corrected without banning guns themselves. |
I dunno about you, but if has gotten to the point that a gun is pointed at your person, things are bad enough that I'd refrain from calling the action "stupid" and lean more towards "survival instinct".
I've carried a gun on and off for years. When stateside, my primary concealed weapon stays in my car (readily accessible), and I'll holster it when I feel the situation might warrant it. When traveling in Newark, walking home or escorting someone home late at night, etc. I almost feel naked without it.
But, it is my view, that laws designed to restrict or remove firearms only take them out of the hands of people who will be abiding the law anyway. I'm inclined to believe that the people who murder, rob, rape, or any other violent crime committed with a gun are not going to be stopped by the fact the only gun they could get was an illegal one. Just sayin. |
For countries with strict gun control laws (e.g. UK), does anyone have solid data on crime (specifically murder or assault?) before and after the gun control laws have been enacted? |
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| gally912 wrote: | | E-boy wrote: | | I'd go further to say that while they carry those guns for "protection" that they are highly likely in those circumstances to use them in ill advised ways. Such as attempting to retrieve them while somone else has a gun pointed at them. This is a form of stupidity that's easily corrected without banning guns themselves. |
I dunno about you, but if has gotten to the point that a gun is pointed at your person, things are bad enough that I'd refrain from calling the action "stupid" and lean more towards "survival instinct".
I've carried a gun on and off for years. When stateside, my primary concealed weapon stays in my car (readily accessible), and I'll holster it when I feel the situation might warrant it. When traveling in Newark, walking home or escorting someone home late at night, etc. I almost feel naked without it.
But, it is my view, that laws designed to restrict or remove firearms only take them out of the hands of people who will be abiding the law anyway. I'm inclined to believe that the people who murder, rob, rape, or any other violent crime committed with a gun are not going to be stopped by the fact the only gun they could get was an illegal one. Just sayin. |
Out of curiousity Gally just how many times have you attempted to remove a gun from a holster when someone else actually has one out and pointed at you? Having a gun pointed at you is not the same thing as being assured the theif will shoot you. It might surprise you to know that not everyone victimized in armed robberies is shot (Something generations of convenience store clerks are understandably thankful for)I don't care how fast you are, playing quick draw with someone who already has a weapon pointed at you is very likely to get you shot. Particularly from the point of view of the would be robber who now sees you are armed and realizes you will very likely shoot him if he lets you. Maybe you call that survival instinct but I'd rank that particular instinct right up there with deer freezing in the headlights of an oncoming truck.
On the other hand if I happened to witness a crime in progress in which another person was in 'imminent' danger of serious injury or death I can see how I might have time to use a weapon without getting myself killed.
I'm not against people having guns, nor even having concealed carry permits. I've dealt with some seriously disturbed people in my life and can see how some folks would want to ensure they have some form of defense handy. Regulation of guns does not at all bother me though, in fact I view it as necessary in this day and age.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6306
Location: wasteland style
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Gally, yesterday.
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attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose |
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The Highlord
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to second Mouse's query if anybody here's an expert on epidemiology and would like to explain how that's a functional control group.
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a bit mystified myself. I'd really like to see any peer review done on this.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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