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Israeli youths reject army call-up
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Israeli youths reject army call-up Reply with quote

More than 80 Israeli students have announced their refusal to serve in the Israeli military because of what they call their nation's track-record of oppression in the occupied territories.

The conscientious objectors issued a letter declaring their determination not to join up during a news conference in Tel Aviv in protest against the government's policies towards Gaza and the West Bank.

"We cannot ignore the truth - the occupation is a violent, racist, inhumane, illegal, undemocratic, immoral and an extreme condition that presents a mortal danger to both peoples," the letter read.

"We, who were educated on the values of liberty, justice, honesty and peace, cannot accept it."

It was signed by 84 high school students.

Four of the signatories at the news conference on Monday said they were aware that refusing to enlist would land them in jail, but noted that they were acting out of loyalty to their values and those of the society they live in.

"We were born into the reality of the occupation and many in our generation see it as something 'natural'," Or Ben-David, a 19-year-old from Jerusalem, said.

Ben-David is legally obliged to join the army at the beginning of November.

"But I opened my eyes to what was around me and became critical of the Israeli society. I visited in the West Bank and met with Palestinians, it changed my view of things."

Jail sentence

When asked whether she would do a different kind of public service, another refusenik - Amelia Marcovich - said she considered public service and volunteering to be a lifelong activity and not just something that you do for two or three years because you have to.

"I hope that sitting in jail won't dampen my desire to contribute to the society and that I'll keep on volunteering afterward," she said.

Another objector, Effie Brenner, a student, said he is refusing against his parent's wishes. "My parents reacted really badly when I told them I wouldn't join the army. They threatened to kick me out of house," he said.

Nevertheless, he said it was easier to do three years of military service than to stand up and make a statement and even sit in prison for what you believe in.

"One of the reasons I refuse to join is because I want the Palestinians to know that not all Israelis are in favour of the occupation and that some people are willing to make a sacrifice to end it," Brenner said.

"Palestinians who have heard of what I'm doing have expressed thanks and encouragement."

Brenner said the group had already employed legal representation and they were ready to face the military trials awaiting them.

Similar letters have been publicised over the years by high school seniors slated to enlist ever since the first one was written in 1979.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/10/2009101373851115553.htmlas


This is encouraging news and these are brave young people, ready to stand up for human rights even facing prison and being shunned by their families. More power to them.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.December18th.org the campaign to free those who have been imprisoned for refusing to join the israeli army.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd much rather see changed is the rule that orthodox religious Jews don't have to join the army because they work for their nation by praying and wearing funny hats.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
What I'd much rather see changed is the rule that orthodox religious Jews don't have to join the army because they work for their nation by praying and wearing funny hats.
Why?
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The Highlord



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think being a conscientious objector should result in jail time.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:
Michael wrote:
What I'd much rather see changed is the rule that orthodox religious Jews don't have to join the army because they work for their nation by praying and wearing funny hats.
Why?

Because that one pisses me off.

Armies & conscription etc is a much more complicated topic and I don't know where I stand.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, but this is not just about a bunch of people not wanting to joining the army, this is about these people actively protesting against the completely illegal, according to the UN; in fact according to anyone but Israel, occupation of Palestinian territories. This occupation, these settlements is very active violation of the basic human rights of the palestinians living there, not in some abstract way, but through check-points, random arrests, being forced from your home. The list goes on. And this is just what the army does, the settlers, almost exclusively religious and nationalist fanatics, teach their children to htrow rocks at palestinian children. They have killed palestinians and been freed in court, even with conclusive evidence. In fact the state has ordered the military not to intervene when the settlers attack palestinians, because the settlers have been crazy enough to shoot at the army. That's right. But take away the settlements and you take away the settlers. I should perhaps again stress that these settlements are illegal.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So because it's a far more complicated issue it's suddenly crystal clear?
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
So because it's a far more complicated issue it's suddenly crystal clear?
Crystal clear it is not. But in the case of Israel it is a very specific problem, not just a general question of conscription. I am, believe it or not, basically in favor of conscription. Not forced conscription in order to send people to oppress another people, but just as I am in favour of democracy, it is a matter of who is in control. A conscripted army is forced to include basically the same contradictions as in society in general. therefore a conscript army is ultimately much less likely to shoot on their own, as we have seen countless of times. And if pressed, the vast mass of a conscript army can be won over.

This is the contradiction of the militarized society of Israel. They can't have anything but a conscript army but eventually this is going to play a key part in their undoing.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No guys, no no no no... Everyone was doing so well for awhile there, the thread was falling down the page...

You don't respond to a thread by Him. It just encourages him to stick around and post more. I was hoping everyone finally had realized that. And then here it is, at the top of the page. *sigh*
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Michael



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now you're doing it too!
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
No guys, no no no no... Everyone was doing so well for awhile there, the thread was falling down the page...

You don't respond to a thread by Him. It just encourages him to stick around and post more. I was hoping everyone finally had realized that. And then here it is, at the top of the page. *sigh*

Uh, dude, I have been here longer than you. And if my opinion bother you so much that you feel compelled to ignore it, well then maybe posting in this thread isn't the greatest idea. Just a tip. And don't talk about me in third person in my own thread. If you have something to say you can say it to me, if you don't well...again don't post.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
And now you're doing it too!

It's not easy being a tool, I suppose.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"in my own thread" ??

oooooooh boy
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
"in my own thread" ??

oooooooh boy

Well I know better than to say I somehow "own" the thread, however I don't take kindly to being insulted, at the first page nonetheless in thread I've posted. If communist trees is so fucking desperate to insult me he can do it somewhere else.
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