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Misinformation ALERT: Famous People Giving Deadly Advice
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Mizike



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would just like to clarify that the deadly advice mentioned in this abomination of a thread's title has to do with vaccines given to infants, not H1N1 or any other manner of Flu vaccine, which is all anyone has been talking about in this thread.

THESE ARE TWO WHOLLY SEPARATE ISSUES!
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nathan



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they? I see it as two separate heads of the same anti-science beast.

I sincerely doubt most people concerned about vaccination have read enough to even recognize that there are separate underlying issues/arguments going on here. Everyone I talk to pretty much bottoms out at "gosh, I heard those things can be, like, really dangerous."
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, am skeptical about the merits and effectiveness of any influenza vaccine. That skepticism is not extended to the thoroughly proven vaccines that I and many others received as a child.

No one thinks the flu vaccine will give anyone autism. That's a level of crazy reserved for measles, smallpox et al., for whatever reason.

Edit: To clarify, my skepticism of influenza vaccines does not pertain to those people who are already at high risk of complication from the flu (the elderly and severe asthmatics come to mind). They should totally get it.
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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
mouse wrote:
i really don't get the uproar - where are people getting the idea that the h1n1 vaccine is some whole new other dangerous thing?

That's exactly the problem, they don't know. I brought up the vaccine issue at work today and one guy said "Well I've been hearing some bad things about it."
I said "What things?"
"Well, bad things..."
"See? that's exactly my point."

I then went on to try to explain to him that part of the problem is people hear rumors or thought they heard "someone saying something" or some other poor, equally vague rationale and they take it as fact instead of looking into it more.


One of the Nurses at my work got the H1N1 vaccine today and told me about it. My coworker said something about it being a bad decision on his part. About 10 minutes later he claimed to not be feeling very well, I facepalmed.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
No one thinks the flu vaccine will give anyone autism. That's a level of crazy reserved for measles, smallpox et al., for whatever reason.


You sure?


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E-boy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
I, for one, am skeptical about the merits and effectiveness of any influenza vaccine. That skepticism is not extended to the thoroughly proven vaccines that I and many others received as a child.

No one thinks the flu vaccine will give anyone autism. That's a level of crazy reserved for measles, smallpox et al., for whatever reason.

Edit: To clarify, my skepticism of influenza vaccines does not pertain to those people who are already at high risk of complication from the flu (the elderly and severe asthmatics come to mind). They should totally get it.


The conversation in here always wanders. It's not a new phenomenon to be off topic in a thread here. Also Nathan is right, both issues are related in that they share the same sort of in the face of evidence fear mongering.
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
The conversation in here always wanders. It's not a new phenomenon to be off topic in a thread here. Also Nathan is right, both issues are related in that they share the same sort of in the face of evidence fear mongering.


I am aware of thread derailment. This thread, however, has meen misguided and inaccurate from the first post.

And they really aren't the same at all. Not even remotely close.
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.... "Don't give your children vaccinations against common childhood diseases cuz they'll get autism" and "Don't get the H1N1 vaccination because it will hurt you/kill you/ is part of a massive government conspiracy(take your pick)" are not at all the same.... Oh wait, fear mongering is present in both. Oh! Vaccines safety is a major theme in both too! Gee, I'm gonna have to go with they are, in fact, kind of similar.

They are not the identical concern no, but they certainly seem to be following a general theme of distrust of vaccine safety and necessity.
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Last edited by E-boy on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
E-boy wrote:
The conversation in here always wanders. It's not a new phenomenon to be off topic in a thread here. Also Nathan is right, both issues are related in that they share the same sort of in the face of evidence fear mongering.


I am aware of thread derailment. This thread, however, has meen misguided and inaccurate from the first post.

And they really aren't the same at all. Not even remotely close.


You're missing the point. The main point is people are being mislead by dumb celebrities, vague rumors, and ignorant relatives/peers.

The conclusions some people are making is "Well I hear there's something up with that H1N1 vaccine and there are some celebrities protesting vaccines so the H1N1 vaccine must be giving kids autism". This doesn't make sense right? Of course it doesn't but this and other conclusions even more stupid and disjointed and being drawn and people are making BAD, critically life-affecting decisions based upon those stupid conclusions.

In other words, they heard that shark attacks increase directly proportional to the amount of ice cream being sold so they decided to shoot all the cows.
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I caught that point actually. I didn't think I was arguing against it. I was merely trying to point out that there seems to be a theme involved.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking to mizike Laughing
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I really should go to bed... I make an ass of myself when I'm wide awake too, but it seems to happen more often when I'm tired.
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The Highlord



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
I, for one, am skeptical about the merits and effectiveness of any influenza vaccine. That skepticism is not extended to the thoroughly proven vaccines that I and many others received as a child.

This is where I do a spit-take and ask how the influenza vaccine isn't proven.
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Usagi Miyamoto



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's more a case of, the influenza vaccine isn't even capable of being 100% effective. Flu vaccine contains only a small but hopefully representative sample of the strains of influenza you might contract, meaning that you might still get the flu (maybe I should say, "a flu") even with a shot. The vaccine makers usually shoot for what they think the three predominant strains will be during the next flu season when they make up the vaccine, and if they guessed right, you're protected against, I dunno, maybe 60-80% of the flu variants you're likely to run into. If they guessed wrong, it might be only 20-40%. On the other hand, your measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination is good against practically 100% of exposures to measles, mumps, or rubella. We're comparing different kinds of things, here, when we talk about flu vaccine effectiveness, and naturally that leads to some confusion.
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DeD CHiKn



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
The main point is people are being mislead by dumb celebrities, vague rumors, and ignorant relatives/peers.


But thats not limited to vaccination discussions, thats everyday life.
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