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[fucked up]So...uh, that wikileaks thing
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
Standing next to insurgents to take pictures? It's terrible that innocent people died but really what do you expect?

except they weren't insurgents

well, to the army, everybody they shoot is an insurgent but i'm not going to play by their rules Cool
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
Standing next to insurgents to take pictures? It's terrible that innocent people died but really what do you expect?

Yes, to this to air so shortly after the massacre made by U.S troops in Afghanistan, does lower your expectations for said troops to avoid murdering civilians. And, as I said about Abu Graihb, this is only the tip of the iceberg. These are the incidents that are not sucessfully quited down. Why do you think the U.S government refuses to sign the treaty that would make their soldiers prosecutebably in the International War Tribunal in Haag?
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Garlyto



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday's midnight news already broadcasted it.

The official news thingy.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortunately there was a big mining accident, so the story is off the front page of most new sites, now. Whew! That could've gotten some traction there, made the military look bad!
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gradius made them do it!" Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
From Fox:



Even if they can't blame liberals for this happening, at least they found a way to harp on one of their favorite demons!

And here I was half-expecting they would just go with the "that camera soo looked like an RPG. Honest mistake"-line. Yes, I have already seen people say it like that. I mean, seriously.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so in the second vid, when they're first coming around the building, at first , yeah i could see how they though it was an rpg...

HOWEVER, it's pretty fucking clear about 2 seconds before he pulls the trigger that the guy dropped a camera.
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Katrin



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
except they weren't insurgents

well, to the army, everybody they shoot is an insurgent but i'm not going to play by their rules Cool


At least one of them was genuinely carrying a gun, in a zone where an insurgent attack had just occurred. Doesn't make them all insurgents, but you don't walk out with a gun unless you plan on using it.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the streets of New York? yes
Baghdad 2007, with the plan of getting pictures of the action? I think that might be forgiven
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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
you don't walk out with a gun unless you plan on using it.


Wrong.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at the height of the troop surge in Baghdad, 2007, there wasn't really anything you could do that was safe.

of course, either way, the only shooting being done in that video was by the helicopter.
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gally912



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Lai was an atrocity. This is a mistake.

The pilots and gunner followed ROE to the letter. They asked for permission before doing anything. The ground forces they were pulling over-watch for were under small arms fire in another area. The men they fired upon had weapons. In no way can the soldiers in the helicopter be blamed because some reporters thought it was a good idea to travel around with armed militia men in the middle of a ground engagement.
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nathan



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll spot you the opening volley, but isn't it a bit against the rules of engagement to fire on clearly unarmed men who are mortally wounded and being carted off the field of battle... and the clearly unarmed caregivers helping them?
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan wrote:
I'll spot you the opening volley, but isn't it a bit against the rules of engagement to fire on clearly unarmed men who are mortally wounded and being carted off the field of battle... and the clearly unarmed caregivers helping them?

I gotta agree w/ nathan here. I'm not saying your wrong Gally, and I understand that even a second of hesitation can spell death for everyone on the chopper, but it's not going to help the the fact that the gunner is sitting there saying "C'mon, grab a weapon, grab a weapon." to the guy bleeding and crawling on his belly on the sidewalk.
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Him



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gally912 wrote:
My Lai was an atrocity. This is a mistake.

The pilots and gunner followed ROE to the letter. They asked for permission before doing anything. The ground forces they were pulling over-watch for were under small arms fire in another area. The men they fired upon had weapons. In no way can the soldiers in the helicopter be blamed because some reporters thought it was a good idea to travel around with armed militia men in the middle of a ground engagement.

No, this is the tip of the iceberg. Who has confirmed any of those killed as militia men?
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I understand that even a second of hesitation can spell death for everyone on the chopper

That chopper was at least a kilometer a way. Probably more. They could've done nothing and still be safe. Even if the guys on the ground had weapons, even if these weapons were magically able to shoot that far, even if they managed to actually hit these fast, moving targets from such a distance, then still, it takes more than a few AK's to take down an Apache.

And gally, maybe the ROE are wrong.
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