Sinfest

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject:

I have already suggested that the tests will be flawed from the beginning and that the tests for low income schools will have to be scored differently. Tests are never perfect but there has to be a system that will work!

So tell me, what are your ideas for a system that will function and motivate our teachers to improve?

Sorry for all the posts. The blackberry has some strange character limit.

Michael · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 10428

No standardised tests. Motivated teachers who grade their motivated personnel.

The only other thing I can think of is repeatedly testing their knowledge, maybe some yearly exam. And make sure to open up some extra channel so that children can complain about their teachers if they feel they've been treated unjustly (is that a "deacon" in English? someone like that). But I'm pretty sure schools already have that.

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject:

You can't just test their knowledge, you have to test their teaching ability as well. I have met many teacher that knew their shit but coulldn't explain it worth a damn. I've also known teachers that didn't know much more than the basics but could teach the concepts clearly and thoroughly.

Colleges base tenure decisions (eeeeew tenure) at least partially on evals from the students. I am not sure why that would not work in this case too.

Michael · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 10428

Imagine Bart grading Ms Krabappel

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject:

On standardized tests: are those currently used for anything other than statistics? Funding or something?

I don't think standardized tests aren't going to go away unless there is a standardized curiculum. The statistics between schools is just too valuable. We do need to see what areas need help even if the tests are flawed. Not that we have actuallly paid attention to them... Or maybe we don't have people that are educated in the right techniques.

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject:

Willem · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 6306 Location: wasteland style

Mizike · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 5120 Location: Iowa City

Because students don't like good teachers. They like easy-grading and amicable teachers.

The only method I have ever thought would work to evaluate teachers (though I don't know that it is practical) is like the one described in Freakonomics. It would involve yearly exams, but teachers would not be rewarded just for the performance of their students that year. Teachers would be rewarded for the sustained success of their former students. Such rewards would be increased if the student had struggled previously, but then turned it around and sustained higher scores.

The reason is that if a student shows a sudden and marked improvement one year but then struggles the following year, their improvement was a mirage created by teaching to the test. However, if a student shows improvement one year and sustains high levels of achievement, then the teacher has likely done a good job of teaching the student the skills needed to succeed.

I'm not sure how practical a system would be but it seems to reward the right things, at least.
_________________
Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
~Seneca

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject:

picturesofsky · Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3074 Location: England

1) Grade them on their pupil's performance.
Positives: encourages teachers to get the best from their students
Negatives: encourages teachers to teach tests, encourages teachers to work in areas with smarter children, discourages the opposite

2) Grade them on their performance (e.g. via school inspections)
Positives: encourages teachers to perform well
Negatives: Starts a cycle when a school is scored poorly whereby good teachers leave and it can never recover.

Basically, any method of performance related pay for teachers is fundamentally flawed.
_________________
Ironically, Halen's one of the few people here I wouldn't worry about terrifying my friends and family. In my head he ends every real life conversation stroking his chin and saying, "well yes, that sounds reasonable."

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject:

I like the system but

picturesofsky · Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3074 Location: England

That is a vast and sweeping, unapplicable statement.
_________________
Ironically, Halen's one of the few people here I wouldn't worry about terrifying my friends and family. In my head he ends every real life conversation stroking his chin and saying, "well yes, that sounds reasonable."

Lasairfiona · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject:

Willem · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 6306 Location: wasteland style

WheelsOfConfusion · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 11129 Location: Unknown Kaddath