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Him
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Strange planet
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 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | I maintain that Cameron is not Thatcher and you're all a bunch of silly nannies.
Furthermore, a coalition with the Liberal Dems can only serve to further moderate whatever baby-eating tendencies the Tories still have.
But, I suppose we'll see, eh? |
I didn't know you had anything against Thatcher.
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Him
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | | Do any of you more-informed peoples have a link to a summary of what the actual agreement between the Lib Dems and Tories is? Or would anyone mind taking the time to explain it? I think I understand the gist (Referendum on an instant runoff system, which seems quite sensible; Clegg is Deputy Prime Minister; some Lib Dems are given semi-important positions, but how important are they really?; and a change in election rules so that elections are effectively set at once every five years barring massive discontent, saving the Lib Dems from momentary base-rebellion for siding with the Tories), but I'm not certain that I get the particulars. |
Here's their manifesto, in any case
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Soooooo this seems like mostly sensible stuff.
Things like getting rid of the cameras and changing libel laws are long overdue no-brainers. And I don't think it's a stretch to sat that Britain could stand a little decentralization. I like the new British Overlords.
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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They're looking to start privatising the Royal Mail. They're lowering the corporate tax, while cutting everything else. They're cutting into the NHS as well.
Oh and that Libel thing is just so Murdoch can continue to run rampant with his tabloids.
They're shit.
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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No, British libel laws are the worst in the civilized world. You're simply being a reactionary.
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picturesofsky
Joined: 13 May 2008
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Location: England
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We will strengthen the role of the Care Quality Commission so it becomes an effective quality inspectorate. |
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | | No, British libel laws are the worst in the civilized world. You're simply being a reactionary. |
Fine, then forget the libel law. The rest is still shit.
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Him
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | | Soooooo this seems like mostly sensible stuff. |
Maybe to you and Margaret Thatcher. Thatcher is a bit senile these days though so she gets a pass.
So how many election promises has the lib dems sold out on? Anyone keeping count?
Their legalization of peaceful protests will most likely come in handy in coming years of slash and burn though.
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Him wrote: | | Mizike wrote: | | Soooooo this seems like mostly sensible stuff. |
Maybe to you and Margaret Thatcher. Thatcher is a bit senile these days though so she gets a pass. |
So, which among their proposals is actually reminiscent of Thatcher? Is it the electoral reform that shakes up the House of Lords? Or the instant runoff voting system which will damage the Tories more than any other party? Please be specific.
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"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Him
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | | Him wrote: | | Mizike wrote: | | Soooooo this seems like mostly sensible stuff. |
Maybe to you and Margaret Thatcher. Thatcher is a bit senile these days though so she gets a pass. |
So, which among their proposals is actually reminiscent of Thatcher? Is it the electoral reform that shakes up the House of Lords? Or the instant runoff voting system which will damage the Tories more than any other party? Please be specific. |
How about the slashing of NHS, the privatization of the Postal Service, the continued war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the continued nuclear warhead deployments in scotland, the cut in the corporate tax, the continuation of thatcher-era anti-union laws? Most of these has already been mentioned, but since you asked I reckon I need to repeat them for you. I mean I could go into detail about the attacks on public services, which both the tories and the lib dems promised even beforehand, but I do think you ought to get the point by now. And as the eurozone crisis deepens more is to come.
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Him
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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And then again, what do you have against the Iron Lady herself? The impression I get from you she seems to be pretty much up your alley.
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CTrees
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: |
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So tell me (and this is another one of those "I'm honestly curious" questions), why would it be so bad to privatize the mail system? I know New Zealand and Germany have something like this, and if I'm not mistaken, so does Sweden? I mean, Fedex UPS and the like aren't horrible, and it seems like if there was heavy regulation, like with electrical companies and whatnot (proving their marginal costs to justify pricing, et cetera), it doesn't seem like this would be the worst thing in the world?
Those that better read on this specific topic than I: why the extreme negative reaction? Is it so bad in those countries with privatized postal systems, or what?
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Him wrote: | | How about the slashing of NHS, the privatization of the Postal Service, the continued war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the continued nuclear warhead deployments in scotland, the cut in the corporate tax, the continuation of thatcher-era anti-union laws? Most of these has already been mentioned, but since you asked I reckon I need to repeat them for you. I mean I could go into detail about the attacks on public services, which both the tories and the lib dems promised even beforehand, but I do think you ought to get the point by now. And as the eurozone crisis deepens more is to come. |
I have said earlier in this thread that I am not well-informed on the particulars of Britain's politics, so I will be happily corrected if I am wrong on anything. All I have to go by is the proposal released today. Here is what it says:
NHS: | Quote: | | We will guarantee that health spending increases in real terms in each year of the Parliament, while recognising the impact this decision will have on other departments. |
If a spending increase is actually a slashing, I'm afraid I don't understand how.
Iraq and Afghanistan:
| Quote: | | We will take forward our shared resolve to safeguard the UK’s national security and support our Armed Forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere. |
They are the same as they were. Apparently, you equate Labour to Thatcher?
Nukes:
| Quote: | | We will maintain Britain’s nuclear deterrent, and have agreed that the renewal of Trident should be scrutinised to ensure value for money. Liberal Democrats will continue to make the case for alternatives. We will immediately play a strong role in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference, and press for continued progress on multilateral disarmament. |
It's not dovish, but, again, it's no different than the Labour position.
Corporate Tax:
| Quote: | | We will reform the corporate tax system by simplifying reliefs and allowances, and tackling avoidance, in order to reduce headline rates. Our aim is to create the most competitive corporate tax regime in the G20, while protecting manufacturing industries. |
A cut, true. However, at 30%, Britain's nominal tax rate is quite high. The devil's in the details, and there aren't enough details to cast judgment yet. (For comparison's sake, the US has an enormous nominal corporate take rate of nearly 40%, but various loopholes and exemptions mean that the effective rate is much lower. Also for comparison, even if Britain lowers their corporate tax rate, they could still have a higher rate than Sweden.)
Unions:
There is no discussion of unions in this document. However, since these laws are a continuation, I can only assume that Labour did not find them too objectionable. Once again, if you are conflating Labour and Thatcher, well, I can't help you.
MEANWHILE....
Civil Liberties:
| Quote: | We will scrap the ID card scheme, the National Identity register and the ContactPoint database, and halt the next generation of biometric passports.
We will restore rights to non-violent protest.
We will review libel laws to protect freedom of speech.
We will establish a Commission to investigate the creation of a British Bill of Rights that incorporates and builds on all our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, ensures that these rights continue
to be enshrined in British law, and protects and extends British liberties. We will seek to promote a better understanding of the true scope of these obligations and liberties. |
Decentralisation (I misspelt it just for you wankers):
| Quote: | We will promote the radical devolution of power and greater financial autonomy to local government and community groups. This will include a review of local government finance.
We will abolish the unelected Infrastructure Planning Commission and replace it with an efficient and democratically accountable system that provides a fast-track process for major infrastructure projects. |
Climate Change:
| Quote: | We will push for the EU to demonstrate leadership in tackling international climate change, including by supporting an increase in the EU emission reduction target to 30% by 2020.
We will seek to increase the target for energy from renewable sources, subject to the advice of the Climate Change Committee. |
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"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Willem
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: |
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I'll go into detail in a next post, but let's just start by saying that you're using the vague promises put out by the coalition as an argument as to what they're going to do.
I stress the word vague, because half of those things can be interpreted in at least a dozen ways.
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