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UK elections: Place bets now!
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Willem



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, aside from the horrible, horrible effects of privitization, which I won't get into:

The Royal Mail makes a profit. The only thing the UK gain by selling the Royal Mail is the money they get from selling it and nothing more. Every pound they spent on building up the Royal Mail won't be coming back. It's a short-sighted solution to get some quick cash.
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Him



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
CTrees wrote:
While there's the potential it could be handled badly... the Con/Lib coalition is a new thing, and you seem to be consistently assuming the worst, rather than being willing to admit even a remote possibility that this could go well. Why so pessimistic?

They're the Tories, still. And even though the Lib Dems have a good left wing, they've also got enough liberals in their ranks. I'm pessimistic because although Cameron isn't Thatcher, his party is still her party in many ways. I'm pessimistic because neoliberals want to privatise everything, basically. They're going to try to privatise the Royal Mail, at least partially, so why wouldn't they have a go at the NHS as well?

Also, my point wasn't that they'd handle it badly, my point was that they'd intentionally hollow out the NHS. I'd be pretty ironic if just after the US got some form of public healthcare, the UK would start to destroy theirs.

My wikipedia knowledge of the lib dems tells me the social liberal wing (who by the way sucessfully blocked a proposal to call for privatization of the Postal Service at the last lib dem conference) seems to be losing out, wellmnot only seems but hey the lib dems allied with the tories. And >Clegg, by the way, is with the group around the "Orange Book" who's basic standpoint seems to be "privatizations make everything better!!11!!".
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picturesofsky



Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
picturesofsky wrote:
That means essentially, a bunch of band 2 admin assistants are much cheaper than Band 6,7 and 8 managers. It is a huge huge cut on the NHS, and if it's not done right, will put huge pressure on services.


It's just the admin types, not the doctors/nurses/technicians? Meaning, that would be cutting the overhead but not the actual care providers? I understand it could be rough if done wrong, but if done well couldn't that just create a leaner running system with reduced costs for care? If they were talking about removing a lot of doctors or nurses or what have you, I'd see an immediate problem, but... while it sucks for the people who would get fired, isn't that better for the country overall (again assuming the implementation is suitably elegant)?


So who the hell is going to do the admin? The new doctors and nurses? Who is going to book the appointments? Who is going to put the new models of care into place? Who will respond to the increased burden of measurement from this strengthened care quality commission and PCTs?

More doctors! More nurses! Just make sure they can type! ?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought that would be what the band 2 admin assistants were for...


but i get your point. it's easy to point to middle management as some sort of useless money-wasting bureaucracy, but _good_ middle management are the people who do things like evaluate cost/benefits of new technologies and equipment, oversee quality control, make policy decisions and just in general keep things running smoothly. doctors and nurses are of course important, but they are generally the ground troops, and it isn't their job to see the big picture. but that's easy to lose sight of, since they are the ones the patients see, and see as the ones doing "the real work".
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
i thought that would be what the band 2 admin assistants were for...

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Mizike



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
Mizike wrote:
I maintain that Cameron is not Thatcher and you're all a bunch of silly nannies.

Furthermore, a coalition with the Liberal Dems can only serve to further moderate whatever baby-eating tendencies the Tories still have.

But, I suppose we'll see, eh?

The Lib Dems are fine with just a referendum on AV. They officially Don't Give A Shit.


Not enough time has passed to really evaluate the success of failure of the coalition, but I read today that the Liberal Dems have experienced increased popularity since joining with the Tories.

Any opinions from the Britons?
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Mr Gary



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
Not enough time has passed to really evaluate the success of failure of the coalition, but I read today that the Liberal Dems have experienced increased popularity since joining with the Tories.

Any opinions from the Britons?


Not enough time has passed between the World Cup and the real world to really evaluate the success or failure of the coalition, though everyone has very strong opinions on Raoul Moat, Fabio Capello & Lindsay Lohan.

I actually think orange makes her eyes look prettier.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm siding with Steve on this one 'cause I think he's right and cause I think he'll send his evil NHS cronies round to beat me up otherwise

Even if the problem _was_ the middle layer, how is giving them less money gonna solve this? The obvious rebuke - how is more money gonna solve this - just goes to show that moving money levers up and down isn't a way to deal with real world problems
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Willem



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following some British political cartoons for a bit and I must say, they're insane. Much better than American or Belgian cartoons, anyway.








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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that like fucking Beaker in the corner over there?

god it's like that thing where they gave an artist like a shit ton of LSD and then had him draw as the stuff kicked in, like, american political cartoons are 10 minutes in and those are the 50 minute mark
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picturesofsky



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I wasn't depressed enough about living here at the moment...
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Him



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Con-Dem government propose denationalisation of NHS
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:
Con-Dem government propose denationalisation of NHS


I wholeheartedly approve of your quality sources of information.
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Chocolatefan



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy looks like the UK is going to turn into the US in terms of health policies.
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picturesofsky



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:
Him wrote:
Con-Dem government propose denationalisation of NHS


I wholeheartedly approve of your quality sources of information.


Article is pretty bang on the money in this case, though.
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