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Stay warm, snuggle up near a burning koran!
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Catel



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 349
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Highlord wrote:
Willem wrote:
So it's basically a "Do whatever the fuck you want" clause?

And inciting hatred isn't enough? It has to be violence?

Pretty much. Unless it can be classed as harassment, libel, slander, or an incitement to violence

Is it not ?
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6183
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speech that calls for violence only counts as incitement to violence if the threat of violence is imminent.

if this guy, for example, tells his followers to go out into the city, find some Muslims, and kill 'em, that would be incitement to violence. if he is not specifically telling his audience to get up and go kill some Muslims, then it's not incitement to violence, because the threat is not imminent.

the standard is much stricter in the US than it is in other parts of the Western world.
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Catel



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 349
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. So it doesn't work if he incites muslims to violence. Thanks.
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Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6306
Location: wasteland style

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
speech that calls for violence only counts as incitement to violence if the threat of violence is imminent.

So, if I were to say: "We'll show these Muslims what's what. Find out where they live and show them what real muricans look like! But don't hurt 'em, we'se above that."

Or if I were to give out detailed directions to a mosque to an angry mob...

I wouldn't be directly inciting violence, so I'd be safe?
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Chocolatefan



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Stay warm, snuggle up near a burning koran! Reply with quote

Quote:
"We have firmly made up our mind, but at the same time, we are definitely praying about it," said Jones

Uh...
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3842
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
speech that calls for violence only counts as incitement to violence if the threat of violence is imminent.

So, if I were to say: "We'll show these Muslims what's what. Find out where they live and show them what real muricans look like! But don't hurt 'em, we'se above that."

Or if I were to give out detailed directions to a mosque to an angry mob...

I wouldn't be directly inciting violence, so I'd be safe?


People in Australia, and I feel this probably happens in England too with young people especially, will invoke their first right amendments when speaking hatefully. Which is good comedy!

In Australia we have a recurring circus with an Islamic Cleric who gives these amazing hate-inciting speeches.

I think the difference is, if someone says 'these people are fucked and you should kill them' it doesn't matter what you say next, whether you say 'come kill them with me' or 'but we should not kill them', in Australia at least, any rhetoric that implies you should be violent towards another person or race is considered illegal and violence-inciting. But we have no first amendment. We just have the gist of it.

What a weird post.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12380
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the US, with the right to free speech being written into the highest law of the land, the bar is always set high when it comes to issues of which kinds of speech are actually criminal.
Except for certain cuss words on broadcast TV and radio.
It's kind of sad that the FCC is more concerned about the word "shit" than racial slurs. If I had to pick one or the other, I know which would be more harmful for impressionable children to hear.
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 7563

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when your crazy scheme has lost joe lieberman...
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When ignorant people exercise their 1st amendment right to spew hate in public, the rest of us (read: we, the people) should exercise our 1st amendment right to call them out in public. The 1st amendment doesn't prevent citizens from voicing their opposition to the views of other citizens.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6183
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Stay warm, snuggle up near a burning koran! Reply with quote

Chocolatefan wrote:
Quote:
"We have firmly made up our mind, but at the same time, we are definitely praying about it," said Jones

Uh...


yeah, they're praying that their hateful, bigoted PR stunt isn't construed by its targets as hateful and bigoted.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT GUYS, i wonder if you'll pray that your hateful, bigoted PR stunt doesn't get any American soldiers killed.
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koran burning spurs ex-CIA official to lead protest.

Sign The Petition: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/632/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=4685
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm #999.
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yours is cooler. I was #979. Very Happy
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6183
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pah, and i was 987
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6183
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh man he's pissing everyone off

General Petraeus is comparing this to Abu Ghraib
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