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What is american culture? Does it exist?
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Television isnt the ONLY indicator of american culture you know. There's also music, theatre, other arts.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
BTW I should mention I've been thinking this since I re-read Walden last week...to put things more accurately (I was kinda upset last night but it had nothing to do with anything here) it's not so much as I feel that there is no American culture as much as it seems that we've done a great job of smothering and diluting what little we've developed.


If you want to put that idea to rest, sit down sometime with a complete recorded segment of television from the 1970's or 80's. You simply cannot compare now with then. I have no idea what people in 1975 or 1985 would do if confronted with a time-traveled broadcast of the season of, say, Community. Their heads would explode. I don't think we're losing something of the gestalt 'American culture' by having our media evolve the way it is, but if that's the case, then fuck american culture; it needed to be left behind.
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Darqcyde



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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Television isnt the ONLY indicator of american culture you know. There's also music, theatre, other arts.

Have you read Twilight? It's bad. Really, REALLY bad. I'm not even talking from a subjective view point, the writing is virtually unreadable. The fact that a book that wretched has spent almost 2 years on the NYT best seller list just makes me want to cry. Music? Application of inappropriately applied business models has done A LOT of damage in terms of fostering new talent.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazing! when you consider only the lowest denominator, everything looks awful!
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Snooki is less of a dumb cunt and more someone incapable of realising she's being laughed at and not with, who is so desperate for love and attention that she thinks embarrassing herself in front of millions of people will get her that love and attention.

And Shadowcell is totally right -- someone asks you to consider American culture other than reality TV and you leap straight to Twilight? You're looking for a fight that isn't there, and you're looking for people to agree with you when most of us will never agree with you.

You and Snooki are peas in a pod!
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twilight is far and away the most popular piece of recent literature out there. It has an influence, at least in this country, far beyond what books normally have. It's a multi-billion dollar brand.

TWILIGHT HAS MADE THE NAME ISABELLA ONE OF THE TOP 3 MOST POPULAR GIRLS NAMES FOR CONSECUTIVE YEARS. PEOPLE ARE NAMING THEIR CHILDREN EN MASSE BASED ON THAT STEAM PILE!
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read Dragons: Lexicon Triumvirate? It's AWESOME. REALLY REALLY REALLY AWESOME AND NOT RACIST AT ALL
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Mizike



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Twilight is far and away the most popular piece of recent literature out there. It has an influence, at least in this country, far beyond what books normally have. It's a multi-billion dollar brand.

TWILIGHT HAS MADE THE NAME ISABELLA ONE OF THE TOP 3 MOST POPULAR GIRLS NAMES FOR CONSECUTIVE YEARS. PEOPLE ARE NAMING THEIR CHILDREN EN MASSE BASED ON THAT STEAM PILE!


The movie Splash invented the name Madison as a female given name. Now it's one of the most popular in the US.

Big deal.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet I'm pretty sure that in 2025 when all those girls currently being named Isabella are in high school, nobody will remember Twilight or Snooki or Justin Bieber or whatever else you're going to shake your fist at next. People have been bitching about how their culture is so much worse than their parents' and grandparents' culture ever since there was culture.

Case in point: who remembers how the Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera were destroying the art of music with their manufactured pop back in the late 90s and early 2000s? No one? Better question: who remembers the Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera?
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually, the backstreet boys really DID destroy all culture.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
And yet I'm pretty sure that in 2025 when all those girls currently being named Isabella are in high school, nobody will remember Twilight or Snooki or Justin Bieber or whatever else you're going to shake your fist at next. People have been bitching about how their culture is so much worse than their parents' and grandparents' culture ever since there was culture.

Case in point: who remembers how the Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera were destroying the art of music with their manufactured pop back in the late 90s and early 2000s? No one? Better question: who remembers the Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera?


No, I'm questioning whether or not my fore-bearer's had culture to begin with.

I mean, is that really what American culture has become? Contrived acts aping those with real talent and skill? Shallow facsimiles of those with true depth?

As someone who will (hopefully) be in a position to influence millions I take this kind of issue seriously. I have witnessed and seen artistic piece and performances that were so powerful and moving that I felt like a better human being for allowing them to become a part of my own personal experiences. I can't help but be afraid that far too few get to experience such joy. As Emerson put it "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

But there's more to our current state of shallowness than that. See all those hyperlinks around this text and everywhere else? They're doing a great job of helping people care less deeply about issues. Or is it worse than that?
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally remember The Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera -- she's still making music.

The issue is, that culture is what you make it, so if you think everything you see is shit, then you're only going to see shit. So all you're fucking doing is being a part of the problem.

Canberra (where I live) has a very small but very vibrant arts scene. We are deluged with alleged big acts hired by the Chief Minister for big events, and there are lots of people and families that go out and see that and love all that, which I am not particularly into. Those of us not into it go out of our way to create our own theatre, music, and visual arts events, either as practitioners or as facilitators, or just as fucking audience members.

People who sit around and say all culture is shit are the problem. If you hate Snooki then don't fucking watch Snooki. Your 'someone was watching it in the room with me' excuses are fucking highschool bullshit. I am fairly certain you're an adult, so leave the fucking room, or ask them to change the channel.

Everything you are saying is complete bullshit. It is so frustrating to hear people whinge and whinge and whinge about how there is no culture anymore when they are obviously a completely uncultured fuck. If there is no culture for you on TV turn the fucking TV off, go and see a fucking live band or something. Take responsibility as a member of society to seek out culture, rather than expecting culture to show up at your fucking door and politely ask if it can come in.

Stop fucking worrying about Twilight allegedly making people call their children Isabella, it is completely meaningless. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it is the death of high art, you fucking whinging, douchebag fucking wanker.
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Unnamed?



Joined: 14 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:


I mean, is that really what American culture has become? Contrived acts aping those with real talent and skill? Shallow facsimiles of those with true depth?

As someone who will (hopefully) be in a position to influence millions I take this kind of issue seriously. I have witnessed and seen artistic piece and performances that were so powerful and moving that I felt like a better human being for allowing them to become a part of my own personal experiences. I can't help but be afraid that far too few get to experience such joy. As Emerson put it "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."



American culture has always been a giant steaming pile of shit with the occasional gold nuggets hidden within. It's just been expanded to a greater scale. Everyone regards the 60s as a heyday for good music. There were good acts in the 60s, but there was SO much bad music as well. Everyone knew about the good ones because there weren't that many outlets for music back then. So if a band was good, chances most people who listened to music had heard of them and ended up remembering them.

Fast forward to present day where everyone has a band on myspace. I don't think the shit:good ratio has changed much, it's just that there are so many different musicians of each. When you find a handful of good bands, chances are they're not going to be the same selection of quality bands that the next guy is listening to. Because of this, no one band can pull off what the Rolling Stones did. There's just too much material with too much diversity for that to ever happen again. Just because Justin Beiber is at the top of the charts doesn't mean that there isn't a large undercurrent of good material as well. No one good artist really gets that popular because so many are competing for the attention of the audience. Many people mistake this for a fall in music development.

You fear that so few people experience a life-changing piece of art. At least in regards to music, that probably isn't true. It's just that the guy next to you is experiencing the best of albums of his life with a completely different set of artists than you are.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unnamed? wrote:
It's just that the guy next to you is experiencing the best of albums of his life with a completely different set of artists than you are.


DING DING DING DING!
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you don't even need to leave your house anymore to go experience culture or whatever. the Internet is an entirely new venue for artists of all stripes. yes, you have to sort the shit from the awesome stuff, but y'know what you have to do that in every other medium too.
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