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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Iowa City
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 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: Please understand that it's tabloid-style - not sincere |
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Serial rape artist Julian Assange prowling streets of London after bail granted by rapist-loving judge.
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Darqcyde
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 9086
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Please understand that it's tabloid-style - not sincere |
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| Mizike wrote: | | Serial rape artist Julian Assange prowling streets of London after bail granted by rapist-loving judge. |
This interview is over...
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Guest
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2163
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank fucking fuck for that. Now if the prosecution and the ladies could apologise for almost singlehandedly embarassing the entire country, and the government putting a spoke in this debacle for good then we'd be off to a good ending. |
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I think you have issues, Guest. I don't know that anyone thinks ill of Sweden for having rape laws and carrying out legal proceedings against individuals accused of having violated those laws.
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nathan
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6269
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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I do. I think ill of Sweden for having rape laws. Rape is just romantic diplomacy carried out by other means.
So much for Sweden being a progressive, relativistic nation. Douches.
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ShadowCell
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 5264
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| nathan wrote: | | Rape is just romantic diplomacy carried out by other means. |
Gunboat romance. I like that phrase. |
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Guest
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2163
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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...No...that's not what I'm saying. And I think I take offense to you even thinking that. I'm saying these two ladies and the prosecution are making a mockery of our judicial system - with the side-effect that it's broadcasted all over the world.
In any other trial, evidence of the sort presented in this case would conclude it. Not this one, though. The prosecutor of the case being a noted feminist would question his/her motives. Not this one, though. Not even when Interpol got involved did it cease. It's laughable beyond laughable. It's insulting to other rape victims who did get raped. I don't believe for a second they were raped or were even close to getting raped. They're not sad, angry, disillusioned - none of those. Even if rape victims deal with it in their own way, I would imagine bragging about having sex with their rapist wouldn't be one of them. Even if they do omit saying that later on.
It's ridiculous. Whether the case is politically motivated or the prosecution pulling some strings to keep it going, this is not a normal rape case. This is not how a normal rape case in Sweden is conducted. Also, yes I know I shouldn't care what people think, but don't tell me this won't have any repercussions for what people in the future will think of this country. |
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Guest wrote: | ...No...that's not what I'm saying. And I think I take offense to you even thinking that. I'm saying these two ladies and the prosecution are making a mockery of our judicial system - with the side-effect that it's broadcasted all over the world.
In any other trial, evidence of the sort presented in this case would conclude it. Not this one, though. The prosecutor of the case being a noted feminist would question his/her motives. Not this one, though. Not even when Interpol got involved did it cease. It's laughable beyond laughable. It's insulting to other rape victims who did get raped. I don't believe for a second they were raped or were even close to getting raped. They're not sad, angry, disillusioned - none of those. Even if rape victims deal with it in their own way, I would imagine bragging about having sex with their rapist wouldn't be one of them. Even if they do omit saying that later on.
It's ridiculous. Whether the case is politically motivated or the prosecution pulling some strings to keep it going, this is not a normal rape case. This is not how a normal rape case in Sweden is conducted. Also, yes I know I shouldn't care what people think, but don't tell me this won't have any repercussions for what people in the future will think of this country. |
I started to react quite negatively to this, but I've got a better idea now.
Could you point me to the sources you've read that indicate that a rape did not occur? Everything that I have read has been consistent with the possibility of rape (and I confess that it has led me to believe that Assange did rape these two women). However, perhaps you have better sources of information than I.
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"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2723
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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bail doesn't mean not guilty or that a trial will not proceed yknow.
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Guest
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2163
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mizike wrote: | | Guest wrote: | ...No...that's not what I'm saying. And I think I take offense to you even thinking that. I'm saying these two ladies and the prosecution are making a mockery of our judicial system - with the side-effect that it's broadcasted all over the world.
In any other trial, evidence of the sort presented in this case would conclude it. Not this one, though. The prosecutor of the case being a noted feminist would question his/her motives. Not this one, though. Not even when Interpol got involved did it cease. It's laughable beyond laughable. It's insulting to other rape victims who did get raped. I don't believe for a second they were raped or were even close to getting raped. They're not sad, angry, disillusioned - none of those. Even if rape victims deal with it in their own way, I would imagine bragging about having sex with their rapist wouldn't be one of them. Even if they do omit saying that later on.
It's ridiculous. Whether the case is politically motivated or the prosecution pulling some strings to keep it going, this is not a normal rape case. This is not how a normal rape case in Sweden is conducted. Also, yes I know I shouldn't care what people think, but don't tell me this won't have any repercussions for what people in the future will think of this country. |
I started to react quite negatively to this, but I've got a better idea now.
Could you point me to the sources you've read that indicate that a rape did not occur? Everything that I have read has been consistent with the possibility of rape (and I confess that it has led me to believe that Assange did rape these two women). However, perhaps you have better sources of information than I. |
Well, for the omitted messages there is this blog post, which isn't without bias but brings up some interesting information - including the fact that Ardin lauded her rapist after the deed had evidently been commited. If above source is too mangled as it's originally in Swedish, try this alternate source - it draws its source from the previous blog post and adds a little to it, but if nothing else it translates the part about the tweets.
Then the bit about their lawyer being a commited feminist, he was given the Feminist of the Year award back in 2006. Yes, we have that and he was the first male candidate. That enough would bring scrutiny to his commitment, but I digress. You can be a feminist and still manage to be unbiased so I won't stress that. It's just that once you consider the evidence, his motives becomes less unambiguous. Then there's the accusations of rape not being accusations of rape in the first place. Frustratingly I can't find the proper source for this, but there was a correspondence with their lawyer, Claes Borgström, and a radio station or a journalist, anyway, asking about the nature of the accusations and that they, particularly Anna Ardin, initially didn't want to press charges and the lawyer replied with something along the lines of, "She cannot judge that, she's not a lawyer." When you consider that he said that, and when you consider that Ardin published a book to revenge men who've scorned her in seven ways (not saying that's immediately damning evidence), you get images of fraud and hucksterism. There is no other way to put it.
There's this article from the Swedish (tabloid) newspaper Aftonbladet where he says almost verbatim, 'she cannot judge when she's been raped, she is not a laywer.' It's in Swedish so you'll have to use Google Translate. It'll get mangled but you'll get the idea. |
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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The author of the first source seems to believe that all women have a universal (and universally negative) reaction after having been raped. Obviously, I can only go off of what my friends have told me, but since my friends are rape victim advocates I believe them when they tell me that this is not the case. This source seems to have a variation of the "blame the victim" mentality. Far from being proof of deception, the "evidence" cited therein is entirely consistent with the behavior of people who have been raped.
I am unable to translate the AftonBladet article at all (GoogleTranslate says it can't do it), so I can't comment on it. Basically, I see nothing to make me thing there is anything improper with having a trial. I'm not saying he's guilty, but there is absolutely a case.
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"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Hey, Guest, maybe you can help clear something up about the charges. Concerning this:
| Quote: | | A fourth charge, relating to a Miss W, alleged that on 17 August, he "improperly exploited" the fact she was asleep to have sex with her without a condom. |
I have taken that to mean that they had consensual sex in the evening with a condom. Then in the morning, he initiated sex without a condom (or so it is claimed). Is that the charge?
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Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Guest
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2163
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Try this source. The one at the top is the translated article I linked to you.
| Quote: | | I have taken that to mean that they had consensual sex in the evening with a condom. Then in the morning, he initiated sex without a condom (or so it is claimed). Is that the charge? |
From the sources I've read, they had sex the night before with a condom and the morning after without one. The fourth charge that's trumped up, the so-called "surprise sex" is ... well, for lack of a better word, bullshit. I've never heard of a "sex by surprise" clause, nor the fine that accompanies it. It's made up. A claim by an Indian correspondent from some newspaper, then taken up by Assange's UK based lawyer Mark Stephens, which is nothing short of outlandish. Unfortunately I can't find anything to back it up, for or against it. Maybe Him knows more.
As for the source I cited, yes, it's biased. I did say. What the author himself thinks of the case though is, by my estimates, irrelevant, as it's the individual facts that matter. Regardless of what his personal opinion might be, the hard facts present in the article remains. Anyway, if you look at what's there, at the very least you'd have reasonable doubt - something that wouldn't fly in any normal court case. |
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: |
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If, when you say it give cause for reasonable doubt, you mean that the facts make you think "No one who was raped would do X," then you don't know much about rape. That is another discussion, though.
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Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
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Mizike
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5120
Location: Iowa City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I serendipitously stumbled upon this when looking for more information about that fourth charge. It seems that it is not what I though. Rather, he is accused of having sex with a woman while she was sleeping. Much more straightforward that way. Anyway, it goes on to thrash the bit about trying to get revenge.
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Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
~Seneca |
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