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Steve Irwin's death: Tragic, but expected.
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WhupAs101



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I laughed when I heard he was killed by a stingray.

He worked with a lot of dangerous animals in his life. And the one that does him in is a stingray. Not getting into the "what is dangerous" debate, for whatever reason, I don't see them to be as dangerous as a crocodile (most obvious example).

I read a lot of comic-books. If I die because of an infected papercut I got from reading the latest Ultimate Spider-Man or I'm crushed beneath a tall stack of those long white comic-boxes, I hope to God people chuckle when they hear about it.

Regarding him being called an idiot, I called him an idiot before his death, I'll do it after.

I see it as a disservice to a person to treat them any differently dead than I treated them while they were alive. I wouldn't go to the guys funeral and call him an idiot or anything, but if I mocked him for his goofy accent before he died, well, crickey, I'm gonna keep doing it after.

My calling him an idiot has no bearing on the type of person he was, or even his intelligence. I called customers the i-word many times when I worked at a video store. I would tell stories about this or that customer pissing me off, and call them an idiot. It happens, despite my having no clue of their actual intelligence. I don't see it as a horrible attack on their character. I'm not about to go up to his kids and say "Hey your Dad was pretty fucking stupid," as well, they're his family.

Of course I feel bad for his family. A wife lost a husband and kids lost a father. Which is where the me-not-calling-him-stupid-in-front-of-them thing comes into play.

Thankfully, I don't know them, so I don't have to be too concerned about that. I'm sure they should be okay financially speaking, the mourning process will go the same for them as it does for everyone. That's all the thought I'll throw their way, heartless though I may be. Can't be bothered to be offended for the families of every family that's lost a husband/father every time someone makes a snide remark regarding the deceased.

Basically that's just a pile of words that question the need to be so offended by the title of the post. It's admirable and all that, I just think that many pages in the thread dedicated to defending the dudes honor is a little much.

Oh, and I should point out, that knowing what I know now about the man, causes he stuck up for and whatnot, I will probably spread the word about what a great guy he was with my buddies. I have a lot more respect for him than I did when he was just a generic eccentric celebrity. And yes, he died doing what he loved and all that. More than likely, in the future I'll make a joke about him poking a poisonous snake in the eye with a stick and then french-kissing it (oh no, is he exaggerating or does he actually think thats what he did? WE WILL NEVER KNOW), laugh, then say "heckuva guy though".

And I'll probably call him an idiot immediately after all that.

Crikey.

Sorry that I ramble like I do, my IQ is significantly less than the majority of you I'm sure, so therefore, I need to talk more to try and get my point across, and sometimes it doesn't even happen then. Please forgive my being so plain and unsexy.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
mouse wrote:
HIDDEN on the seafloor.

hidden.

from sharks, yes.

but other things miss them too.

(and i'm really not sure about the value of that white underbelly. when the light is above one (as the sun generally is), it shows up as a big black shadow, no matter _what_ color their belly is. and why do animals with short little legs have white underbellies? to fool bugs?)


no, I'm quite certain about the belly coloring bit, same for orcas too, lighter on the bottom + darker on top = maximum sea cammo.


no, they clearly are colored that way. so are deermice. although the standard explanation is that it is countershading, check out about anything on discovery's shark week - i guarantee at least one will have footage looking up at a shark from below....and the shark appearing as a pitch black silhouette against the sky. just because this is the explanation everyone gives doesn't mean it's correct.

and to emphasize dazed's post - according to the story, he was snorkeling (i.e., not using a tank) - so yeah, probably in shallow water.


I'm guessing angle to the sun and how directly above it was and such woul play a factor in how it would appear but don't forget that whose silhouettes make for good TV. I guess it doesn't really matter anyhow since according to dazed there are tiger sharks in that area and they attack from below, not above. Confused
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Some Guy!



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only real comment after most if this is that the domestic and tamed animal risk comparisons are, in my opinion, moot. This ray was neither, it was wild, and wild animals are not predictable in the same way that domesticated or tamed ones are. Additionally, the numbers are very likely problematic. Millions of people are around dogs, horses, hell, even elephants every year. I doubt (though I lack any evidence) that the number of people that are around truly wild sting rays, as Irwin was, numbers over a thousand a year. It is entirely possible that, even though this is the third such death ever recorded in Australia, the percentages of this happening are even higher than being mauled to death by a domesticated dog. Alas, without any proper statistic, that argument too is moot. I digress.

As for his death. Yes, it is a freak accident. Yes it is tragic. No I am not surprised, and I think that, had he survived this one, he may have made it a few more years before he died from an elephant strangling him with its trunk or something equally ridiculous.

That said, I am open to the criticism that what happened to Irwin could have happened to anyone. It is entirely possible that he was swimming over to look at a particularly interesting fish and found himself in the wrong spot at the wrong time. However, bearing his past behavior in front of a camera in mind, I will say I would be surprised if that is actually what happened. To such a claim's merit however, generally Irwin knew what the fuck he was doing, as he knew his life was on the line, and if he was looking for a sting ray this probably wouldn't have happened.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck! I missed full metal. Fuck!

carry on
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dazedb42



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Margaret River, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm guessing angle to the sun and how directly above it was and such woul play a factor in how it would appear but don't forget that whose silhouettes make for good TV. I guess it doesn't really matter anyhow since according to dazed there are tiger sharks in that area and they attack from below, not above.


That's because their main food source are turtles. As the turtles come up for air they get taken from behind by tigers. I once had a 9ft tiger come up in the try gear on the trawler....you wouldn't of wanted to be on deck that night. We didn't have any guns or anything on board only a small baseball bat that we used to persuade the shark to be docile so we could get a line around it's tail and winch it back over board. Snapped the winch rope a couple of times but we did re introduce it back to the sea eventually.

The Low Isles are so beautiful but the water is treacherous.

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Azmoten



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHY STEVE, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: pokey Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Also who gave the reports? his camera crew? Guys he was in all likelihood close with to some degree. I have NO IDEA WHY THEY WOULD POSSIBLY CHANGE DETAILS OF THE STORY TO PAINT STEVE IN A BETTER LIGHT.


Stop, just stop.

Everything that happened to him was filmed, by people who want to catch things on film to show other people. Everything that happened to him was already shown to close associates.

I mentioned yesterday that I wasn't going to wrap points up (mitigated by having to run in and out all day) -- leading people to speculate that I was honestly suggesting that the feral toothpick is a more dangerous bedfellow than the stingray -- but if I had hung around long enough to cycle around the whole issue, it probably would have centered around Mouse's point that 'this is a freak accident that could have happened to anyone, but it only seems to have special significance because it happened to Steve Irwin.'

Steve did a lot of risky shit around dangerous animals. Lots of people assumed that this would get him killed, but it didn't. The circumstances of his death did not involve either a (1) dangerous animal or (2) foolhardy behavior, but because the death did involve 'an animal,' people are making that connection anyway and calling it expected.

This is the erroneous connection which has led people to say things like "It seems pretty clear he didn't care about his family enough to bother to try too hard to stay around for them." or "I don't say it was accidental, I say it was inevitable." or "His ego got him killed."

Your present conspiracy theory tangent is pulling a close fourth, especially considering that Steve wasn't involved in anything particularly risky that day. "Swimming in the shallows with stingrays" ranks well below the lightning-strike threshold for sudden danger. You can take your kids!
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Flion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: pokey Reply with quote

Marik wrote:
Steve did a lot of risky shit around dangerous animals. Lots of people assumed that this would get him killed, but it didn't. The circumstances of his death did not involve either a (1) dangerous animal or (2) foolhardy behavior, but because the death did involve 'an animal,' people are making that connection anyway and calling it expected.


I pretty much agree with you execpt that you got off-tangent on this. 1) Stingray = dangerous animal. 2) a career being filmed working with dangerous animals is 'safe' behavior?

However, I take your point. Lots of us do - well, let's not say 'foolhardy', let's use 'risky' - things. Two examples from my life are I'm a pilot and I ride a bike. I hear some people worry about the risks I take. They're my risks, though, and I'm familiar with them and how to minimize them and I accept the consequences. I expect Steve did the same. It's not a path I'd have chosen but it seems to have worked for him for a long time. I might laugh and say, "Knew something like that was gonna happen.", but it's not a judgement on him; I don't think he wasted his life. Others probably feel differently.
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Marik



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: evil kneivel dies as the lead car Reply with quote

Stingrays aren't very dangerous animals. They just aren't. I know they have barbs, but we don't measure an animal's danger based on point by point (pun intended) anatomical measurement, like "they're dangerous because you could kill yourself by falling on one" or "it has teeth" -- you measure them based on their predilection for harming or killing humans, and how safe a person is in relative proxy to one.

This is why bears are dangerous and wolves are not, etc etc.

Also, note that I'm not saying that Irwin's career was safe behavior. Hell no. It was very dangerous, probably around the level of risk of international hot-spot journalism. I'm just saying that what Irwin was doing at the time he was killed is not something which is really dangerous. Literally, it's something that most folk will tell you is pretty safe to do. If you're playing in the shallows with stingrays, you'd be more likely to accidentally drown than get offed by a stingray barb.
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Azmoten



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: pokey Reply with quote

Flion wrote:
I pretty much agree with you execpt that you got off-tangent on this. 1) Stingray = dangerous animal. 2) a career being filmed working with dangerous animals is 'safe' behavior?


1) Usually not dangerous. It just got him in the chest and caused a cardiac arrest.
2) I'm fairly certain it had nothing to do with his filming career.
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Marik



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: succession procession Reply with quote

To make a wonderfully obtuse comparison, it would be as if Evil Kneivel survives years of harrowing and batshit insane motorcycle stunts, then one day gets killed in a completely freak accident as a riding flagbearer in a slow-speed rose bowl parade procession.

And then everyone says "Lol, that idiot -- everyone knew that motorcycle stuntwork was dangerous."
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Amilam



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That has to be my second favorite celebrity death scenario Marik. My first being the entire cast of KISS ceremonially lighting the Olympic Flame only to tragically fall in.

*cues patriotic version of “Rock and Roll All Night”
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Last edited by Amilam on Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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trustedfaith



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: succession procession Reply with quote

Marik wrote:
To make a wonderfully obtuse comparison, it would be as if Evil Kneivel survives years of harrowing and batshit insane motorcycle stunts, then one day gets killed in a completely freak accident as a riding flagbearer in a slow-speed rose bowl parade procession.

And then everyone says "Lol, that idiot -- everyone knew that motorcycle stuntwork was dangerous."


THANK YOU!

<3

You've hit the nail perfectly on the head sir. Thank you.
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trustedfaith



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More information emerges.

Quote:
CAIRNS, Australia - Videotape of Steve Irwin's last moments shows him pulling a poisonous stingray barb from his chest but no evidence that he had provoked the fish, officials said Tuesday, as tributes poured in for TV's beloved "Crocodile Hunter."

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Azmoten



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rescind the comment about it being unrelated to his filming career.
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