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2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Randall Munroe's Radiation Exposure Chart


This chart fails to mention the problem with radioactive particles in the environment that accumulate over time every time there is some form of a leak.

Since we live in an environment with a finite volume, every time radiation leaks into the environment, that bullshit background radiation figure increases ever so slightly.

Since those particles have A HUGE HALF LIFE they will be around for the next big leak that happens, trust me.

Bravo Randall, you're easily manipulated.


Bolding particles does little to convince me that you have any idea what you're talking about.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:34 am    Post subject: [X] THE TOLD MAN AND THE SEA Reply with quote

Perhaps if I was paid to teach you about the world, I might have more incentive to care whether you think I know what I'm talking about.
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Canopus



Joined: 13 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pronounced 'nucular'.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: [X] THE TOLD MAN AND THE SEA Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Perhaps if I was paid to teach you about the world, I might have more incentive to care whether you think I know what I'm talking about.


Perhaps if people were paid to care about what you think, or if you had any importance beyond your massive self importance people might have more incentive not to think of you as more than a hugely annoying shitbag.
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy wrote:
Perhaps if I was paid to teach you about the world, I might have more incentive to care whether you think I know what I'm talking about.


me, some time ago wrote:
BWAAAHAHAHAHAH




asshat
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tinkeringIdiot



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xkcd to the rescue again!



link
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, that's the chart thy is talking about.

the one that shows that randall is easily manipulated.





yeah, i don't know how he reached that conclusion either, unless he didn't actually bother to look at the chart, or read it, or something.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Help from Ellen Reply with quote

Right on the picture mouse.

It gives credit where credit is due.
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picturesofsky



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, he's overestimated by 10 thingies, because he's counted the allowed radiation dosage for radiation workers twice, which further weakens any case for the whole BACKGROUND RADIATION WE'RE GOING TO DIE thing.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: wasting my time Reply with quote

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Magazines/Bulletin/Bull023/02302601416.pdf

Read that.

also, if you can, read this.

Quote:
People view radioactive waste with great alarm—and for good reason. At high enough concentrations it can kill; in lower concentrations it can cause cancers and other illnesses. The biggest sources of radioactive pollution in Europe are two factories that reprocess waste fuel from nuclear power plants: Sellafield on the north-west coast of Britain and Cap La Hague on the north coast of France. Both discharge radioactive waste water into the sea, which ocean currents then carry around the world. Countries such as Norway, which lie downstream from Britain, receive significant doses of radioactive pollution from Sellafield. The Norwegian government has repeatedly complained that Sellafield has increased radiation levels along its coast by 6-10 times. Both the Irish and Norwegian governments continue to press for the plant's closure.


Wow those governments sure are afraid of a little radiation, what could such a small amount of radiation possibly do.

We should let them continue with the wasting and the dischargy radioactivity thingy.

It's not like our oceans are finite, THEY'LL LAST FOREVER!!
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Sam



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quit shitting up threads, thy

tia
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Korendir



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No shit. Nice .pdf about disposal of radioactive material written in fucking 1961; and how fucking stupid do you have to be to suggest that the people on this forum are comfortable with dumping radioactive waste in the ocean? Do you actually think anyone is going to argue that point?

This all started with you saying Randall's chart failed because he did not predict how future radiation leaks will change his chart due to background radiation changes. How the fuck is he suppose to predict that?

No, don't answer that. Just...
Quote:
BWAAAHAHAHAHAH




asshat

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Snorri



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: [X] THE TOLD MAN AND THE SEA Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Perhaps if I was paid to teach you about the world, I might have more incentive to care whether you think I know what I'm talking about.



The point is that even to someone who isn't a physics student your post doesn't make a lick of sense.


It's seriously just bizarre.
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Usagi Miyamoto



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Fukushima power plants, and virtually every other nuclear power plant outside of Russia, reactor meltdowns are contained, and unlikely to escape the reactor vessel (~12 - 15cm of stainless steel), let alone the primary containment (~80 - 150cm of reinforced concrete), unlike the virtually uncontained Chernobyl reactor design. The biggest pollutants likely to escape the reactors are tritium and radioactive steam, which pose a threat only to the immediate area. I did a little work for Westinghouse Hanford way, way back in the day, on imaging software for instruments they were sticking inside the TMI reactor post-meltdown, and got some interesting info about what had happened inside. The weirdest bit was the amount of bacteria that had grown inside, despite the withering radiation level. That's why I was writing software for their customized sonogram systems - the water was too cloudy to see through. The melted fuel at the bottom of the reactor had melted through less than 15mm of the steel vessel, or roughly 10% of the way.

The biggest possible disaster at Fukushima is if the spent fuel storage pools run dry and the spent fuel catches fire, which will spread a plume of various radionuclides, including longer-lived cesium-137 and strontium-90, as well as shorter-lived iodine-131 radioisotopes (or as Thy puts it, particles). Evidence is good that this has occurred to some extent, but keeping the pools filled will stop it, especially if they can add boron to moderate the neutron production of the spent fuel, which will keep it even cooler. If practically all of the spent fuel burned, it could conceivably approach the scale of the Chernobyl disaster. Unlike Chernobyl, most of the impacted area would be unpopulated ocean. This scenario appears to be the primary target of emergency response right now, and it seems to be getting under control, though if Chernobyl and TMI are any guide, it's going to be months before things are truly stable.

My uncle and cousin work at INL, and speaking with them at a family gathering over the weekend, they had info much like you see in the XKCD diagram. They figure the likelihood of the worst possible disaster is now low, though not negligible. And a cousin-in-law's father (an honest-to-gosh nuclear safety engineer) has been called in to consult on the clean up, so I may get some interesting reports.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korendir wrote:
No shit. Nice .pdf about disposal of radioactive material written in fucking 1961; and how fucking stupid do you have to be to suggest that the people on this forum are comfortable with dumping radioactive waste in the ocean? Do you actually think anyone is going to argue that point?

This all started with you saying Randall's chart failed because he did not predict how future radiation leaks will change his chart due to background radiation changes. How the fuck is he suppose to predict that?

No, don't answer that. Just...
Quote:
BWAAAHAHAHAHAH




asshat


Let me tell you a little about 1961, back when the nonexistence of powerful calculators and computers stopped any lazy asshole from being a scientist. Where work was done seriously and shown with incredible detail on paper and in practice. Everything known today builds off that work, and is at best a cheap mimicry of it, rife with assumptions that barely touch the cutting edge, and held back increasingly by corporate interests.

Even back then, they warned of the bullshit happening today. Easily preventable, but let's move on.

No, I'm not suggesting that people are comfortable with dumping radioactive waste in the ocean, I'm suggesting that most are not even aware of it. That was my point.

Hmmmmmm, how would Randall predict future radiation changes.

Well let's see. First you would find the average time elapsed between different radiation leaks and combine that with the average radiation released into the environment and create something called a model.

Using this "model," you would be able to make a decent estimate of our descent into madness.

We done here?
I think so.
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