welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17051
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what does everyone think of the administration releasing bin laden's "home videos" in lieu of the picture of his corpse? some people here have said they thought there would be advantages to showing him humiliated; it sounds like that idea was in the minds of the administration in choosing to release the footage ("hey - bin laden was this guy who liked to sit in the basement watching himself on tv, and dyed his beard black for his statements so everyone would think he was still looking young!")

think it will work?
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6306
Location: wasteland style

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope.
_________________
attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17051
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about if someone spoofs them on youtube? or saturday night live?

THIS IS A COMPLEX QUESTION, WILLEM.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6306
Location: wasteland style

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

If their intent is to show Osama as a human being - and a sad one at that - you've got to wonder who their audience is. Muslims around the world either knew Osama was just a human being and didn't worship him as some sort of hero (this is literally like 99.9% of them), the others won't give a toss about what the US has to say on the matter. Hell, they might not even believe he's really dead.

And even if they believed anything the US had to say, Osama had a reputation as an impressive man - and considering his achievements, he probably was - which doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy a warm blanket while watching himself on TV. Hell, humanising might make him more real, more relatable.

Back in the US, the videos have two effects. They're used as a way to gloat, humiliating a man they already shot. This leads to the second effect: it humanises Osama, maybe even invoking pithy. It just underlines the fact that the US spent so much time and effort - destabilising several parts of the world, not to mention the US itself - and for what? An old man on dialysis, hiding in a bare room somewhere, vain enough to watch himself on TV. Not some evil mastermind, not an Islamic superman, just an ordinary human being. Can't imagine that not making people think about it all.
_________________
attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10606
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Well, to keep up in the news.

Sam wrote:
Dogen wrote:
It's fairly certain US helicopters couldn't have penetrated that far into Pakistani airspace without them knowing, and thus some deal must have been reached.


It actually would have been profoundly easy for the US to spoof pakistani transponder codes.


This is what happened, essentially.

Pakistan's military is disgraced right now. The ISI look (rightfully) like a bunch of complicit chumps.

Where have you heard that? I've heard rumors that it might be the case, but certainly nothing convincing enough to make me as sure as you seem to be. I've also heard suggestions of stealth modified Black Hawks, and that given the number of US flights performing counterterrorisms tasks in Pakistan everyday (John Brennan has said more terrorists have been captured or killed in Pakistan than anywhere in the world) they may not have worried about radar very much at all. Brennan has also said the PAF was scrambling "assets" to Abbotabad, but that the mission was over before those assets got there. The wiki on DevGru mentions transponder spoofing, but the source cited actually says, "How did the helos elude the Pakistani air defense network? Did they spoof transponder codes? Were they painted and tricked out with Pakistan Air Force equipment? If so -- and we may never know -- two other JSOC units, the Technical Application Programs Office and the Aviation Technology Evaluation Group, were responsible."

Then there's CNN, who quote Pakistani officials as saying they cooperated, and were aware of the operation, but only in so far as they authorized the helicopter flights.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4175
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revealed: Truth about Osama and The IT Crowd
_________________
A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want? ~Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4175
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox News reports death of “Obama Bin Laden”
_________________
A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want? ~Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes we know. A joke, misunderstanding, calling out, and linke has already been posted in this thread.


mouse: the videos seem like a bad idea. I think they should have just released information about the DNA test. Willem has it right - it can really humanize him. I don't think America is to the point where we can handle humanizing a bad guy, especially one which had the reputation of the biggest bad guy. It goes back to we killed a symbol, not really a man. Why would anyone want to portray him as more of a man? Downright confusing.

_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10261
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pakistan may grant U.S. access to bin Laden's wives
By Mark Hosenball WASHINGTON | Tue May 10, 2011 12:52am EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/10/us-usa-pakistan-cia-idUSTRE7486LH20110510

Quote:
(Reuters) - Pakistan now seems ready to allow the United States to interview the wives of Osama bin Laden who were with the al Qaeda leader when he was killed last week, a U.S. official familiar with the matter said on Monday.

The three wives and several children were among 15 or 16 people taken into custody by Pakistani forces after U.S. Navy SEAL commandos secretly flew into the country, killed bin Laden at a compound in Abbottabad and spirited away his body for burial at sea, said the security official.

"The Pakistanis now appear willing to grant access. Hopefully they'll carry through on the signals they're sending," the official said.

There was no immediate comment from the White House.

Pakistan is a vital ally to Washington in the war against Islamist militants in neighboring Afghanistan but relations already were rocky over U.S. drone strikes against insurgents in border regions, differences about priorities and U.S. espionage in the nuclear-armed Muslim country.

Prickly ties between the Central Intelligence Agency and Pakistan's main spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI), have worsened with the revelation that bin Laden lived for five years in Abbottabad, home to Pakistan's main military academy and not far from the capital Islamabad.

The CIA has no intention of bringing home its chief operative in Pakistan despite an apparent attempt by Pakistani media to unmask his identity, U.S. officials said on Monday.

While the media reports apparently were inaccurate, U.S. officials said they believe the leak was a calculated attempt to divert attention from demands for explanations of how bin Laden could have hidden for years in such a prominent place.

U.S. officials suspect the attempted outing of the CIA station chief in Islamabad -- the second incident of its kind in six months -- was the work of someone in the Pakistani government or the ISI.

The Obama administration has demanded access to ISI operatives and bin Laden's wives to try to map out al Qaeda's network.
___________

A private Pakistani TV network and a newspaper published what they said was the real name of the top CIA operative.

Two U.S. officials familiar with dealings between Washington and Islamabad said the name the TV channel aired was wrong and that the real station chief would remain.

"The current CIA station chief is a true pro, someone who knows how to work well with foreign partners and is looking to strengthen cooperation with Pakistani intelligence," one of the U.S. officials said.

In December, the man then serving as the CIA's station chief left Pakistan after his name appeared in local media accusing him of complicity in U.S. missile attacks in which civilians were killed.

U.S. officials said they believe the exposure of that station chief was deliberate retaliation by elements of ISI who were upset their agency and some of its officers had been named as defendants in a lawsuit filed in a U.S. court.

It was filed by the families of Americans killed by Pakistani militants in attacks on a Jewish center and other civilian targets in Mumbai, India, in November 2008.

Allegations about ISI's alleged relationship with the Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based group accused of carrying out the Mumbai attack, are expected to be aired at the trial in Chicago this month of a businessman accused by U.S. authorities of involvement with the militant group.

_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9458

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faced with the prospect of either gross incompetence of Pakistan's intelligence agencies or outright support of Osama bin Laden by parts of the government, Pakistan's military and elected officials have decided that the biggest issue at hand is how awful the US was for not trusting them in the first place and for performing a "sting operation" in the country.
Quote:
Pakistan Army Chief Balks at U.S. Demands to Cooperate[/B]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Despite mounting pressure from the United States since the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, seems unlikely to respond to American demands to root out other militant leaders, according to people who have met with him in the last 10 days.

While the general does not want to abandon the alliance completely, he is more likely to pursue a strategy of decreasing Pakistan’s reliance on the United States, and continuing to offer just enough cooperation to keep the billions of dollars in American aid flowing, said a confidant of the general who has spoken with him recently.


Such a response is certain to test American officials, who are more mistrustful of Pakistan than ever.

Quote:
Denying Links to Militants, Pakistan’s Spy Chief Denounces U.S. Before Parliament

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — In an unusual, and apparently heated, closed-door session of Parliament, Pakistan’s spy chief issued a rousing denunciation of the United States on Friday for its raid that killed Osama bin Laden and denied that Pakistan maintained any links with militant groups, according to lawmakers.

Rather, the spy chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, blamed an intelligence failure for the presence of Bin Laden in the city of Abbottabad, where a top military academy is located and where the leader of Al Qaeda was killed in an American raid on May 2.

General Pasha said he had offered his resignation twice to the leader of the army, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. As his presence before Parliament made clear, it was not accepted.

The two generals were called before the extraordinary 11-hour session to answer to the failures of the military and the intelligence agency that allowed a team of American commandos to enter and leave Pakistan in a stealth helicopter operation undetected.

Unusually vibrant criticism by some politicians and the Pakistani press after the raid compelled them to try to repair the reputation of the military and the intelligence agency, which the army controls.

But after recognizing the lapse, General Pasha rallied Parliament behind him, several legislators said, with strong criticisms of the United States that elicited thumps of approval from the chamber, including leading members of the Pakistan Peoples Party, the major partner in the coalition that the Obama administration supports.

At the end of the session, the leader of the opposition party, Pakistan Muslim League-N, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, who has been one of the most severe critics of the military since the raid, closed ranks behind the military. The session was organized so that “a positive message should go out to the masses,” Mr. Khan said.

A resolution that was passed at the session said Pakistan would revisit its relationship with the United States “with the view to ensuring Pakistan’s national interests were fully respected.”

In that vein, Pakistan’s chief spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, will not allow the Central Intelligence Agency to conduct operations in Pakistan without the full knowledge of the ISI, General Pasha said.


$20 billion in military aid given so far, with an additional $7.5 billion in economic and educational aid in the works. This is the cost of keeping our "ally against terror" propped up so we head off a 'nuclear-armed Taliban' in the future.

It's stupid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12077
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might seem that way right now, but which country has the better chance of churning out anti-American terrorists? One that we're helping to bankroll education and job opportunities for, or one that we've decided to stop bankrolling after we "got what we wanted?" If (big "if") the populace can eventually calm down enough to start asking tough questions about why bin Laden was hiding next to a military academy for five years, that might put pressure on the military and civilian governments to change course. Although this depends on most of them giving up the idea that we attacked an empty house and planted some women and kids there while disposing of a corpse we had in cold storage for years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2275
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're presuming that educated guys are less anti US than the illiterates ones.

I'd suggest you take a closer look. Especially to what happened when a minister was shot by one of his own guard for taking a stand against blasphemy law, and how elites reacted.
_________________
Meu aerobarca esta cheoi de enguias
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2178

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
You're presuming that educated guys are less anti US than the illiterates ones.

I'd suggest you take a closer look. Especially to what happened when a minister was shot by one of his own guard for taking a stand against blasphemy law, and how elites reacted.


Ah yes, the guard who got showered with rose petals in court by lawyers. Probably the most detestible act I'd ever seen.
_________________
"Apparently so. But suppose you throw a coin enough times, suppose one day. . . it lands on its edge."
--Amy Hennig, Soul Reaver 2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12077
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically, most of the mainstream religious groups in Pakistan are a bunch of Islamic Fred Phelpses?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2275
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saudi diplomat killed in Pakistan

Unrelated?, I think not.
_________________
Meu aerobarca esta cheoi de enguias
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
Page 15 of 18

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group