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The Ever-Evolving list of Republican Presidential Candidates
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so who's it going to be, for reals.
Newt Gingrich
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Mitt Romney
42%
 42%  [ 17 ]
Mitch Daniels
10%
 10%  [ 4 ]
Ron Paul
17%
 17%  [ 7 ]
Tim Pawlenty
10%
 10%  [ 4 ]
Sarah Palin
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Rick Santorum
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Jon Huntsman
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Some complete outsider
12%
 12%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 40

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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10907
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really give a fuck about his airplane window comment. I'm more surprised that it's 2012 and we have a second Republican candidate whose (current) campaign approach to health care for those in need is "go to the ER." It was both economically and socially irresponsible when Bush said it, and it's just as much if not more so now, given Romney's forays into health care reform. Presumably he recognized the need for more than just emergency care at some point, but now he's on the stump as a social conservative. Rolling Eyes

Ironically, in 2006 and 2007, Romney referred to an "epiphany" that led him to realize that reliance on emergency room care raised costs. That's why he devised the Massachusetts model, to move care out of ERs and into primary care, where it's more affordable (partially because people go before they're on deaths door and need thousands upon thousands of dollars in procedures and care).
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
According to the reporter who originally provided the quotation, it was clear to all present a the time that Romney was joking about rolling down airplane windows. Which doesn't really surprise me, but must be a sore disappointment to the rest of you. God, political partisans make me sick.


So wait, honestly. we had like two posts to this narrative, I jump in to defend him saying its not a fair thing to judge him on even assuming he wasn't joking, we move on to something else kinda right away.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen, I would find Romney's policy shifts hilarious if it weren't for the fact that close to half of America thinks this guy is the best choice for fucking president of the country, which can accurately be described as terrifying.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
According to the reporter who originally provided the quotation, it was clear to all present a the time that Romney was joking about rolling down airplane windows. Which doesn't really surprise me, but must be a sore disappointment to the rest of you. God, political partisans make me sick.


So wait, honestly. we had like two posts to this narrative, I jump in to defend him saying its not a fair thing to judge him on even assuming he wasn't joking, we move on to something else kinda right away.


I wasn't talking about you. Your response was reasonable and nuanced. But by my count there were five or six other festers whose immediate reaction was "Hur Hur, Romney doesn't know how planes work. He is the next GW."

Here's where I'm coming from. I haven't seen any strong evidence prior to this that Mitt Romney is an idiot. If anything, his life story indicates that he's probably got above average intelligence. He graduated cum laude from Harvard law. He made shit tons of money running a private equity firm, which is not normally something that stupid people do. Grasping, amoral, corrupt people? sure. But not stupid.

Snorri is right that the quotation was presented without context. But that sword cuts both ways. The paper didn't end the paragraph with, "...Romney said jokingly, to laughs all around." But it also didn't say "...Romney intoned gravely, clearly unaware of that airline cabins are pressurized during high altitude flight."

In the face of this, when someone reads a quotation from an objectively smart man, and that quotation can be interpreted in two (or more) ways, one of which makes him look like a drooling idiot, and their immediate reaction is to put that latter spin on the situation, well, either they are as dumb as they're claiming he is (which I doubt is the case), or they are so deeply invested in the idea that the "other guy" is not only wrong, but inferior to them as a human being, that the evaluate all of his statements through a lens of aggressive intellectual dishonesty. They prefer an interpretation that makes the other team look as bad as possible to one that makes sense.

And that's sad. It's the same impulse that the Republicans draw on when they insist that Obama, despite his Harvard degree and life of accomplishment, must be an empty suit affirmative action president because he uses a teleprompter. It's petty and self-satisfied, and it's both a symptom and a cause of much of what is wrong with politics in this country.

Willem wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
God, political partisans make me sick.

your mirror must be absolutely covered in puke then


I know you are but what am I? Rolling Eyes
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm troubled by this apparently being an unofficial Republican platform. Mitch McConnell has said words to the same effect. That makes three top Republicans that I know of who have suggested emergency rooms as a first resort. I'd love to be able to ask them how they think that effects patient outcomes and health care costs, but sadly (sort of) I live in a pretty blue state... Republicans never stump here. Well, Rick Santorum came during the primaries, but that doesn't really count.
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Kilgore



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We concede the necessity of some form of socialized medicine, but insist that it be as cruel, inefficient, and expensive as possible."
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not exactly hopeful, but if this election is a referendum on Obamacare, I'd like to see some shift on the right as a result. Right now it looks like the electoral map will be almost exactly like 2008 (except for Indiana and North Carolina), so maybe that will be impetus for re-imagining how they think about health care. Maybe.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6118
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not this cycle. the right can just blame the mushy inoffensive "most electable" moderate they were eventually talked into nominating by the Wise Old Men of the party, and insist that they'll win next time if they nominate a real conservative, and then they'll nominate someone who's completely batshit insane, like Santorum, and he'll get crushed.

and after that, i don't know what happens.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: the response to Romney's quote — considering the furiousness with which that quote has been propagated (apparently without context) and the rapidity with which it has become a Romney is Stupid theme has indicated to me that by now the Romney campaign has completely lost control of general media narrative and is at this point generally assailed, with the tone of most articles being the question of "Does Romney have a chance of recovering the damage he has done to his image and his campaign?"

Like the idea has become so prominent that he has jacked his campaign so hard by now that it's only really a question of what mistake he's going to make next that hammer more superfluous nails into the coffin.

No big issue with me, of course. I shorted romney and went long on obama when obama was at about 51 on Intrade.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:

Ironically, in 2006 and 2007, Romney referred to an "epiphany" that led him to realize that reliance on emergency room care raised costs. That's why he devised the Massachusetts model, to move care out of ERs and into primary care, where it's more affordable (partially because people go before they're on deaths door and need thousands upon thousands of dollars in procedures and care).


but that doesn't mean it will work for other states! or that we should even suggest other states might want to give it a try! because other states have their own way of doing things, like clinics and stuff, and maybe those are all volunteer? ER workers are all volunteer, right? nobody actually pays them, right? well, in massachusetts, of course, but maybe not in other states!
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Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
Willem wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
God, political partisans make me sick.

your mirror must be absolutely covered in puke then


I know you are but what am I? Rolling Eyes

I've never seen that emoticon used by someone who isn't a total condescending dick. But anyway, it'd be more accurate to say: 'I know you are and so am I and so is everyone' - but you'd have to lose the Rolling Eyes
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey wait a minute I use tha-- fuck.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i never use that emoticon. can i be a total condescending dick anyways?
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Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe i didn't see you guys use it ever think of that?

anyway, isn't the whole 'The Stench' thing a bigger issue than his maybe-maybe not dumb comment about planes?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what stench thing?
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