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End of the Drug War: Mexico and the Cartels
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that the construction of giant fucking walls like this are such a common example of blithering nationalist idiocy. What is the common thread of mentality that makes them seem like a good idea. What are the specific psychological modes that make the imagery of a wall so viscerally satisfying to places like the american south, or israel, or motherfucking ancient china.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdLl05UcRU
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Yorick



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
What is the common thread of mentality that makes them seem like a good idea.

us v. them
xenophobia
NIMBY
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simple:

1. a wall keeps bad things out.
2. drug cartels/immigrants/Mexicans/Mongols/Palestinians/Raiders fans/etc are bad.
:. a wall will keep out drug cartels/immigrants/Mexicans/Mongols/Palestinians/Raiders fans/etc

now we can play "spot the flaw in reasoning"
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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
now we can play "spot the flaw in reasoning"


... you're right. The flaw is that we didn't build the wall around Oakland.
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Yorick



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember when Reagan asked someone to tear down a wall?


so why are we now putting them up?
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Sam



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some good reasons, mostly bad
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Guest



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Why is it that the construction of giant fucking walls like this are such a common example of blithering nationalist idiocy. What is the common thread of mentality that makes them seem like a good idea. What are the specific psychological modes that make the imagery of a wall so viscerally satisfying to places like the american south, or israel, or motherfucking ancient china.


Well for one the wall in china was to keep out the mongols who had them vastly outnumbered

In modern times, tho? No fucking clue.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, if you're not particularly logical or well-versed in the history of underground tunnels, submarines, drug boats, personal aircraft, etc. then a wall would seem like a viscerally pleasing response to the threat of people coming across the border. If we assume the people who support the wall are more likely to include Fox News watchers than those who oppose, and Fox News watchers know less about current events than people who don't watch the news at all, I think we see part of the problem.
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Mr Gary



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Fox News Viewers should support the wall. Their fat, bloated corpses wouldn't make much of a foundation though.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insight - Violence creeping into Mexican capital
By Ioan Grillo MEXICO CITY | Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:12pm GMT
Quote:
(Reuters) - In a nation wracked by drug violence, this sprawling capital city of more than 20 million has been an oasis of relative peace. But the key to that calm - an informal truce among rival gangs - may be cracking.

On a sunny afternoon this month, a group of gunmen drove into a slum in the north of Mexico City, the streets packed with shoppers and children leaving school. In plain sight, the killers lined three crack cocaine dealers against a wall and shot them in the head with AK-47 assault rifles. They then forced another two men into a black van and drove away past terrified onlookers.

The killings, allegedly carried out by the bloodthirsty La Familia cartel of the central state of Michoacan, were the latest sign that the drug violence raging across large swathes of Mexico is creeping into the capital.

The drug lords have long kept a lid on turf wars in Mexico City. But a generation of upstart gangsters has this year carried out a series of massacres and decapitations on the city edges. Cells of these newer cartels have also become more active in kidnapping and shaking down local businessmen.

In the greater Mexico City area, police have reported more than 300 gangland killings this year. The carnage includes the massacre of a family of five in the Tlalpan area, a decapitation close to the wealthy business district of Santa Fe, and two headless bodies hanged from bridge in Huixquilucan in the west of the city. The death toll is up from last year, when 260 murders in the area were blamed on rival gangs.

Mexico City includes the inner Federal District, home to almost 9 million people, and another 12 million in outer suburbs and slums governed by the State of Mexico.

"A cartel crime wave here would be catastrophic," says Luis de la Barreda, head of ICESI, a Mexican think-tank on crime. "Mexico City is not only the home of all the country's major institutions, it is an image that is constantly in everyone's minds."

The capital, to be sure, remains one of the safest parts of the nation. Ciudad Juarez on the U.S. border was last year the most murderous city on the planet. The tourist resort of Acapulco has been hollowed out by violence. Even the affluent business city of Monterrey has been ravaged. But the Federal District boasts a lower homicide rate than many U.S. cities.

Many wealthy Mexicans have retreated here from violent enclaves, setting up new businesses and helping to boost property prices. Poorer families have fled from the bloodshed around the country to shanty towns on the city edges.

But there are signs the capital could go the way of other regions. The Guadalupe Victoria neighbourhood - where gangsters shot dead the three alleged crack dealers in broad daylight - is typical of the slums the new cartels are moving into.

It is in the far north of the metropolitan sprawl, beneath shanty towns that spiral up dusty hills, a two-hour commute from the heart of the capital. The victims represented a problem relatively new to Mexico - a growing population of addicts and dealers who sell rocks of crack cocaine for as little as 30 pesos ($2.15).

Although the gunmen shot the alleged dealers right in front of a row of shops, store owners are too scared to talk about it. Most denied seeing anything, saying they were busy or their view was blocked.


Full Story: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/12/27/uk-violence-mexico-idUKTRE7BQ0C120111227

Some pretty fucked up shit right there. The rest of the article goes on to recount how many of the current cartel heads were originally trained as assassins with "violence first, talk later" mentality.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, uh, my post back on page 5 of this thread, there's a lot more of them than we first thought, and they aren't just in the Pacific. More alarmingly, they're being manufactured by third parties, so who knows who this tech might get sold to.

Quote:
KEY WEST, Fla. — For more than 24 hours last September, a Coast Guard helicopter and speedboat pursued drug traffickers and their contraband across the Caribbean Sea. Finally they caught up with the improbable vessel, the latest innovation in the decades-old drug war. It was a submarine.

The low-slung, diesel-propelled vessel, painted a dark shade to blend with the water, was believed to be carrying several tons of cocaine. But after the submersible’s crew scuttled the vessel and abandoned ship, the Coast Guard was able to salvage only two 66-pound bales of narcotics.

This is the new challenge faced by the United States and Latin American countries as narcotics organizations bankroll machine shops operating under cover of South America’s triple-canopy jungles to build diesel-powered submarines that would be the envy of all but a few nations.

After years of detecting these craft in the less trafficked Pacific Ocean, officials have seen a spike in their use in the Caribbean over the last year. American authorities have discovered at least three models of a new and sophisticated drug-trafficking submarine capable of traveling completely underwater from South America to the coast of the United States.

The vessel involved in the September chase was an older model that was only semi-submersible. That model presents a silhouette above water barely larger than a kitchen table, but requires a snorkel to bring in air for the diesel engine, which has a range of about 3,000 miles. The three newer, fully submersible vessels already captured were capable of hauling 10 tons of cocaine and, by surfacing at night to charge their batteries off the onboard diesel engine, could sail beneath the surface all the way from Ecuador to Los Angeles.

With the use of these craft on the rise, American officials say they fear that the trafficking networks are moving away from so-called fast boats, the high-powered fishing and leisure boats that can carry about a ton of cocaine and are easier to spot, to semi-submersible and fully submersible vessels that can surreptitiously carry many more tons of drugs, which are unloaded in shallow waters or transported to shore by small boats.

More troubling for American officials is their belief that these vessels could be used by terrorists to transport attackers or weapons, though they emphasize that no use of submersibles by militants has been detected.

Drug networks historically were organized to combine the tasks of production, transportation and distribution, and they have seen little reason to cooperate with terrorists. But these new advanced submarines are built in some cases by independent contractors who may be more willing to sell the vessels to anybody offering the right price.


Full Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/world/americas/drug-smugglers-pose-underwater-challenge-in-caribbean.html
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit, the drug dealers are making a killing and can afford that tech. And somehow they're more resourceful than most countries we go to "war" with. If we actually stop this they'll probably somehow start using Star Trek style teleporters or some other crazy method you'd think someone would never bother to try.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I think first we'll see homemade sub-orbital rockets.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This be some fucked up shit right here:
Suspected Mexican teen assassin, 16, linked to 50 killings
Reuters – 14 hrs ago
Quote:
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican prosecutors said Thursday they were investigating a 16-year-old suspected hitman who was believed to have participated in at least 50 murders while working for a drug gang. A spokesman for prosecutors in the northeastern state of Sinaloa said the teenager, identified as Francisco Miguel N., was part of a gang known as Los Mazatlecos, a criminal group attached to the Beltran Leyva drugs cartel.
Police arrested the teen for carrying a loaded gun and drugs. He later confessed to working as a hitman for the group, local prosecutors said in a statement.

The teenager said he had taken part in executions of police, farmers and even a musician since February. The 16-year-old, one of whose nicknames was "El Nino" or "The Boy," said he was given an AK-47 rifle and a pistol to carry out the various attacks in Sinaloa, a violent coastal state with a long tradition of drug trafficking.

Sinaloa is home to the powerful drug cartel of the same name, led by Mexico's most wanted man, Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman. Once allied to Guzman, the Beltran Leyva gang has fought with him since breaking from the Sinaloa cartel in 2008.

A number of teenagers have been captured working for drug gangs, lured by the prospect of quick money. In June 2011, a group of six teenage drug gang members were captured after a shootout with police in central Mexico. Turf wars between the gangs and their clashes with security forces have killed more than 55,000 people during the rule of outgoing President Felipe Calderon.
(Reporting By Dave Graham; Editing by Stacey Joyce)

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