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Thy Brilliance
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3213
Location: Relative
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: Theoretical market |
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| E-boy wrote: | | andrew wrote: | | Michael wrote: | What about "no men" or "no women"?
Are you sure you want to allow this? |
We're already there, and yes, I'm comfortable with it. I'd even be comfortable with "no asians" or similar. I'm confident market forces would take care of any businesses that got stupid with it, particularly because of the aforementioned population & information dynamics. |
Like market forces saved our economy? Oh wait... They didn't. Yes a free market can do some surprising things, but we're really bad at predicting specific outcomes and not all of them are "Good" in the sense of being in our national self interest. |
All the defenders of free markets nevertheless claim we don't have them at the moment. |
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Well we don't. Regulation is in place. It's a matter of how much regulation there is. Advocates of free markets want none, or greatly reduced regulation. Frankly, I think having some regulation in place to prevent some of the nastier excesses of the market is a good thing.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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Martian Kyo
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1447
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Thy Brilliance wrote: | And what about the good kids that do what they are told?
Who represents them in this situation? |
My point exactly. If an adult started screaming in a cinema you would throw him out. Why not do the same with kids, if kids start uncontrollably screaming, ask their parents to leave the room/place. Banning children is just too lazy. It is basically discrimination.
Ok let's say you are all correct and we should ban children from certain atmospheric places At at what age do you put the limit, 12 months...16 months.....2 years...
We could go a wee bit step further...and ban autistic children and people, since they have tendency to have these rather loud fits and i feel seeing them ruins my atmosphere.
Sure ban constantly screaming children but don't ban children in general.
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Tsosm! Dog and travel. Technology and fashion. |
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Michael
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Old people
Loud people
Annoying people
Ugly people |
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andrew
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| E-boy wrote: | | Like market forces saved our economy? Oh wait... They didn't. |
Uh.
| Quote: | | Well we don't. Regulation is in place. It's a matter of how much regulation there is. Advocates of free markets want none, or greatly reduced regulation. Frankly, I think having some regulation in place to prevent some of the nastier excesses of the market is a good thing. |
How did you even get here? |
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Sam the Eagle
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2276
Location: 192.168.0.1
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael wrote: | Old people
Loud people
Annoying people
Ugly people |
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
To live
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Darqcyde
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 9086
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogen wrote: | | Don't be thick. Screaming kids don't equate to bad parents. All children have tantrums, even the children of the best parents in the world. That's just what kids do as they try to learn to deal with the world around them. Which is why it's okay to ban them from places that want to maintain a particular atmosphere: you can't control whether they go off at dinner, no matter how good a parent you are. I've got two little brothers who are a great deal younger than me, and you could plan as hard as you liked to keep them happy - favorite outfit, favorite toy, favorite snack - and sometimes it still went sideways. Being a good parent doesn't mean your kid never cries, it means you reinforce proper behaviors by responding appropriately when they do. That's totally unrelated to whether you're in a fancy restaurant, a grocery store, or your own child beating gymnasium in the basement. |
I can see what Kyo was trying to get at, but I have to agree with Dogen here. The people who excessively bring out their kids are necessarily being bad parents, they're being selfish and inconsiderate of anyone else's needs.
Also MKyo: banning autistic people=banning handicapped people
However, on a case by case basis, if a person is being disruptive and complaints are made to management by other patrons well then "GET THE FUCK OUT" I say. If the 80's were the me generation we now have the children of those people 
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 9304
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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How did we get to "excessively" bringing out their kids? People have kids. People like to go out. People with kids should still be allowed to go out without being judged as selfish or bad parents. How frequently they take their kids out is none of my business, and is irrelevant to whether it's okay to have kid-free establishments.
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"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman |
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2722
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Until some stink gets raised about a place being no kids allowed because some parent cant bring their precious little treasure with them and legislature passes forbidding it I wouldn't go so far as to say parents are selfish.
But then I expect that to be the ultimate finale to this idea.
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mouse
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 15452
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| E-boy wrote: | | Like market forces saved our economy? |
it's not about market forces saving our economy - it's about whether an individual business owner has enough sense of his customer base to keep his business going if he chooses to cater to less than the whole population.
honestly, what does the entire economy have to do with it?
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andrew
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Judging from his posts, e-boy either didn't read the whole discussion or is having a visceral reaction to the words "market forces." |
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E-boy
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I do have a visceral reaction to people who think a free market magically makes the "Right" calls. I think my reference to our economy going in the crapper over things decent regulation could have at least helped put a stop to was just a ridiculously broad comparison to make the point that market corrections don't always happen the way we'd like. It's a bit of a stretch to go from allowing ethnic discrimination in businesses being bad to to unregulated loan practices being bad. In the end though I don't think businesses should be allowed to make calls about either.
We didn't like the end result of the latter and I'm not sure I want market corrections making our decisions about the former.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima". |
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Sam the Eagle
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2276
Location: 192.168.0.1
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | Until some stink gets raised about a place being no kids allowed because some parent cant bring their precious little treasure with them and legislature passes forbidding it I wouldn't go so far as to say parents are selfish.
But then I expect that to be the ultimate finale to this idea. |
Selfish is a strong word. Oblivious otoh.
Can't speak about US parenthood problems, I guess they're quite the same all over up to 6-8y old worldwide. If somewhere kids cause so much ruckus, we're talking Calvin level here, other patrons start to complain then the owner will have to take steps or loose money.
But banning kids outright, that's throwing the baby with the bathwater to me.
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mouse
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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well, who wants babies in their bathwater? do you know the sort of things those things can do, when immersed in warm water? i ain't bathing in _that_!
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Thy Brilliance
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3213
Location: Relative
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: And I always get a funny response. |
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| mouse wrote: | | E-boy wrote: | | Like market forces saved our economy? |
it's not about market forces saving our economy - it's about whether an individual business owner has enough sense of his customer base to keep his business going if he chooses to cater to less than the whole population.
honestly, what does the entire economy have to do with it? |
I always ask what those with mbas have to do with the economy. |
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