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No shirt, No shoes, Got kids: NO SERVICE!
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Theoretical market Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
andrew wrote:
Michael wrote:
What about "no men" or "no women"?
Are you sure you want to allow this?

We're already there, and yes, I'm comfortable with it. I'd even be comfortable with "no asians" or similar. I'm confident market forces would take care of any businesses that got stupid with it, particularly because of the aforementioned population & information dynamics.


Like market forces saved our economy? Oh wait... They didn't. Yes a free market can do some surprising things, but we're really bad at predicting specific outcomes and not all of them are "Good" in the sense of being in our national self interest.


All the defenders of free markets nevertheless claim we don't have them at the moment.
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E-boy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we don't. Regulation is in place. It's a matter of how much regulation there is. Advocates of free markets want none, or greatly reduced regulation. Frankly, I think having some regulation in place to prevent some of the nastier excesses of the market is a good thing.
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Martian Kyo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
And what about the good kids that do what they are told?
Who represents them in this situation?


My point exactly. If an adult started screaming in a cinema you would throw him out. Why not do the same with kids, if kids start uncontrollably screaming, ask their parents to leave the room/place. Banning children is just too lazy. It is basically discrimination.

Ok let's say you are all correct and we should ban children from certain atmospheric places At at what age do you put the limit, 12 months...16 months.....2 years...

We could go a wee bit step further...and ban autistic children and people, since they have tendency to have these rather loud fits and i feel seeing them ruins my atmosphere.

Sure ban constantly screaming children but don't ban children in general.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old people
Loud people
Annoying people
Ugly people
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
Like market forces saved our economy? Oh wait... They didn't.

Uh.
Quote:
Well we don't. Regulation is in place. It's a matter of how much regulation there is. Advocates of free markets want none, or greatly reduced regulation. Frankly, I think having some regulation in place to prevent some of the nastier excesses of the market is a good thing.

How did you even get here?
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
Old people
Loud people
Annoying people
Ugly people


Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
To live

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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Don't be thick. Screaming kids don't equate to bad parents. All children have tantrums, even the children of the best parents in the world. That's just what kids do as they try to learn to deal with the world around them. Which is why it's okay to ban them from places that want to maintain a particular atmosphere: you can't control whether they go off at dinner, no matter how good a parent you are. I've got two little brothers who are a great deal younger than me, and you could plan as hard as you liked to keep them happy - favorite outfit, favorite toy, favorite snack - and sometimes it still went sideways. Being a good parent doesn't mean your kid never cries, it means you reinforce proper behaviors by responding appropriately when they do. That's totally unrelated to whether you're in a fancy restaurant, a grocery store, or your own child beating gymnasium in the basement.

I can see what Kyo was trying to get at, but I have to agree with Dogen here. The people who excessively bring out their kids are necessarily being bad parents, they're being selfish and inconsiderate of anyone else's needs.

Also MKyo: banning autistic people=banning handicapped people
However, on a case by case basis, if a person is being disruptive and complaints are made to management by other patrons well then "GET THE FUCK OUT" I say. If the 80's were the me generation we now have the children of those people Crying or Very sad
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did we get to "excessively" bringing out their kids? People have kids. People like to go out. People with kids should still be allowed to go out without being judged as selfish or bad parents. How frequently they take their kids out is none of my business, and is irrelevant to whether it's okay to have kid-free establishments.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until some stink gets raised about a place being no kids allowed because some parent cant bring their precious little treasure with them and legislature passes forbidding it I wouldn't go so far as to say parents are selfish.

But then I expect that to be the ultimate finale to this idea.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-boy wrote:
Like market forces saved our economy?


it's not about market forces saving our economy - it's about whether an individual business owner has enough sense of his customer base to keep his business going if he chooses to cater to less than the whole population.

honestly, what does the entire economy have to do with it?
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andrew



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judging from his posts, e-boy either didn't read the whole discussion or is having a visceral reaction to the words "market forces."
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E-boy



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Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I do have a visceral reaction to people who think a free market magically makes the "Right" calls. I think my reference to our economy going in the crapper over things decent regulation could have at least helped put a stop to was just a ridiculously broad comparison to make the point that market corrections don't always happen the way we'd like. It's a bit of a stretch to go from allowing ethnic discrimination in businesses being bad to to unregulated loan practices being bad. In the end though I don't think businesses should be allowed to make calls about either.

We didn't like the end result of the latter and I'm not sure I want market corrections making our decisions about the former.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Until some stink gets raised about a place being no kids allowed because some parent cant bring their precious little treasure with them and legislature passes forbidding it I wouldn't go so far as to say parents are selfish.

But then I expect that to be the ultimate finale to this idea.


Selfish is a strong word. Oblivious otoh.

Can't speak about US parenthood problems, I guess they're quite the same all over up to 6-8y old worldwide. If somewhere kids cause so much ruckus, we're talking Calvin level here, other patrons start to complain then the owner will have to take steps or loose money.

But banning kids outright, that's throwing the baby with the bathwater to me.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, who wants babies in their bathwater? do you know the sort of things those things can do, when immersed in warm water? i ain't bathing in _that_!
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: And I always get a funny response. Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
E-boy wrote:
Like market forces saved our economy?


it's not about market forces saving our economy - it's about whether an individual business owner has enough sense of his customer base to keep his business going if he chooses to cater to less than the whole population.

honestly, what does the entire economy have to do with it?


I always ask what those with mbas have to do with the economy.
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