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No shirt, No shoes, Got kids: NO SERVICE!
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2275
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
well, who wants babies in their bathwater? do you know the sort of things those things can do, when immersed in warm water? i ain't bathing in _that_!


What do you snack on in your bath then?. Them babies taste soo good with Worcestershire sauce and wasabi.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
How did we get to "excessively" bringing out their kids? People have kids. People like to go out. People with kids should still be allowed to go out without being judged as selfish or bad parents. How frequently they take their kids out is none of my business, and is irrelevant to whether it's okay to have kid-free establishments.

Oh it's definitely "excessive". As I said "parenting is about sacrifice". that includes your personal wants and desires. If you have a young child that cries every time you go out then something's wrong. And I'm mainly referring toddlers and younger btw.

This isn't about female empowerment or mothers with hectic schedules (or fathers). As I see it, there has been, and continues to be, a growing trend of parents who want to maintain the EXACT same lifestyle they had prior to having children regardless of the impact upon their children or those around them. OR even worse don't want to break a social engagement and bring sing children out with them. WTF?!?!? When your kids get sick you stay home and let them rest.
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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2892

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Dogen wrote:
How did we get to "excessively" bringing out their kids? People have kids. People like to go out. People with kids should still be allowed to go out without being judged as selfish or bad parents. How frequently they take their kids out is none of my business, and is irrelevant to whether it's okay to have kid-free establishments.

Oh it's definitely "excessive". As I said "parenting is about sacrifice". that includes your personal wants and desires. If you have a young child that cries every time you go out then something's wrong. And I'm mainly referring toddlers and younger btw.

This isn't about female empowerment or mothers with hectic schedules (or fathers). As I see it, there has been, and continues to be, a growing trend of parents who want to maintain the EXACT same lifestyle they had prior to having children regardless of the impact upon their children or those around them. OR even worse don't want to break a social engagement and bring sing children out with them. WTF?!?!? When your kids get sick you stay home and let them rest.


uh i'm pretty sure darq is on a soapbox here and not actually responding to the conversation at hand
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, holy shit. There are good parents out there, and they aren't required to be cloistered at home until their kids are old enough to sit quietly. That kind of thinking is the over the top shit that makes people leery of kid-free zones.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think me and Darq both to be honest. Different boxes, of course.

I'm mostly awake and well rested now so I apologize. I get a bit punch drunk when I'm really tired.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Yeah, holy shit. There are good parents out there, and they aren't required to be cloistered at home until their kids are old enough to sit quietly. That kind of thinking is the over the top shit that makes people leery of kid-free zones.

I would like to point out that I am someone who went from having 0 to 2 kids and who was also a VERY social person who went out a lot.

But I'm not taking about " the good parents" I've lost track of the number of times I've seen people bring kids to places and events that were never intended for the age children they are bringing. When I have had occasions to talk to these parents they say things (more often than not) like "I didn't want the kid to miss ...." and the kid they are talking about is less than 3 years of age . "WHAT THE FUCK!?!?" my brain goes trying to figure out how a toddler is really going to "miss out" on something he barely understands, if at all.

Like say a wedding. My sister's best friend (whom I'm also friends with) had a HUGE snafu with her family because no children were supposed to be invited but her husbands sister threatened to boycott the whole wedding if their 4 year old couldn't be at the wedding. My sister's friend made arrangements so any parents that needed babysitting service during the reception would have it but her future sister-in-law didn't care, she didn't want her son to "miss out". I was 4 when my mom remarried to my stepdad and the wedding was hardly something "memorable" to my young self.

As I see it, the problem stems not from "more parents taking their kids to more places more often" but from a alarmingly growing trend of "lack of consideration for others". I'm also of the opinion that when kids act up in public it's due to bad parenting and also possibly bad parents, not bad kids.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I'm also of the opinion that when kids act up in public it's due to bad parenting and also possibly bad parents, not bad kids.

You defy logic. I mean, your soliloquy about selfish parents is one thing, but I can't even fathom how you managed to develop this idea when you have kids of your own. I can honestly say you're the first parent I've ever had this conversation with who's taken that stance (and I've had this discussion what may be a surprising number of times).
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
I'm also of the opinion that when kids act up in public it's due to bad parenting and also possibly bad parents, not bad kids.

You defy logic. I mean, your soliloquy about selfish parents is one thing, but I can't even fathom how you managed to develop this idea when you have kids of your own. I can honestly say you're the first parent I've ever had this conversation with who's taken that stance (and I've had this discussion what may be a surprising number of times).

When I see kids acting up in public I often see one of three "bad" parental responses A) laugh (not often but I've seen it) as in "Ha ha ha! How funny it was that Junior was recklessly running around and knocked over that huge display!" B) do nothing (and I don't just mean ignoring a tantrum, I mean ignoring whatever their kid is doing as long as they stay nearby) or C) respond with anger (excessive yelling, spanking, etc.)

Hell I have friends that are horrible, horrible parents, but it's damn near impossible to give parenting advice to someone who isn't you for it.

I've had the following conversation years ago when my kids were still infants:
Me: "Um maybe you shouldn't let him chase the cat with a pitchfork.."
My buddy: "Nah, he's just messin' with the cat."
"Yeah but don't you..."
"Dude!, Don't tell me how to raise MY kid!"
"Um sorry bout that--oh hey look at the time, gotta get going"
"See ya later"
A few seconds, as I'm pulling out of the drive way I hear a VERY loud banging, a cat make a loud cry, then a child screaming.
I never quite got the whole story but it wound up with the cat getting a puncture wound and the child getting clawed in the face by the cat. I'm proud to say that I don't really associate with the guy form this story anymore.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
When I see kids acting up in public I often see one of three "bad" parental responses A) laugh (not often but I've seen it) as in "Ha ha ha! How funny it was that Junior was recklessly running around and knocked over that huge display!" B) do nothing (and I don't just mean ignoring a tantrum, I mean ignoring whatever their kid is doing as long as they stay nearby) or C) respond with anger (excessive yelling, spanking, etc.)

So if you've never seen a good parent (and apparently you haven't), how do you know the children of good parents don't act out in public?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
When I see kids acting up in public I often see one of three "bad" parental responses A) laugh (not often but I've seen it) as in "Ha ha ha! How funny it was that Junior was recklessly running around and knocked over that huge display!" B) do nothing (and I don't just mean ignoring a tantrum, I mean ignoring whatever their kid is doing as long as they stay nearby) or C) respond with anger (excessive yelling, spanking, etc.)

So if you've never seen a good parent (and apparently you haven't), how do you know the children of good parents don't act out in public?

I judge parents of kids who act up as good or bad depending upon how the parent reacts to the child. Around here I tend to see more poor choices being made than good ones. Actually I do see good parents but I'm sadly often more shocked and surprised.
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cixelsyD



Joined: 09 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Russ, ban kids from everything and make it all topless.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
When I see kids acting up in public I often see one of three "bad" parental responses A) laugh (not often but I've seen it) as in "Ha ha ha! How funny it was that Junior was recklessly running around and knocked over that huge display!" B) do nothing (and I don't just mean ignoring a tantrum, I mean ignoring whatever their kid is doing as long as they stay nearby) or C) respond with anger (excessive yelling, spanking, etc.)

So if you've never seen a good parent (and apparently you haven't), how do you know the children of good parents don't act out in public?

I judge parents of kids who act up as good or bad depending upon how the parent reacts to the child. Around here I tend to see more poor choices being made than good ones. Actually I do see good parents but I'm sadly often more shocked and surprised.

That's the answer to a question I didn't ask.

cixelsyD wrote:
I agree with Russ, ban kids from everything and make it all topless.

You can go topless any time you like, syD.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
When I see kids acting up in public I often see one of three "bad" parental responses A) laugh (not often but I've seen it) as in "Ha ha ha! How funny it was that Junior was recklessly running around and knocked over that huge display!" B) do nothing (and I don't just mean ignoring a tantrum, I mean ignoring whatever their kid is doing as long as they stay nearby) or C) respond with anger (excessive yelling, spanking, etc.)

So if you've never seen a good parent (and apparently you haven't), how do you know the children of good parents don't act out in public?

I judge parents of kids who act up as good or bad depending upon how the parent reacts to the child. Around here I tend to see more poor choices being made than good ones. Actually I do see good parents but I'm sadly often more shocked and surprised.

That's the answer to a question I didn't ask.

cixelsyD wrote:
I agree with Russ, ban kids from everything and make it all topless.

You can go topless any time you like, syD.

Really? I answered you, I know you're not that dumb Russ. When did I once say I NEVER see good parents? They're just a shrinking minority from my perspective, which is hardly omniscient.
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Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm also of the opinion that when kids act up in public it's due to bad parenting and also possibly bad parents, not bad kids.

Quote:
I judge parents of kids who act up as good or bad depending upon how the parent reacts to the child.

Mmmmyes, mmmmyes, I see.
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LD!



Joined: 11 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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