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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Myers-Briggs is kind of a scam. I mean, it's interesting, but only something like 50% of people have the same result after a year. They even say in the manual that the thinking-feeling dichotomy isn't reliable, and that the whole thing's questionable with kids. Which makes getting attached to being an INTJ or whatever even sillier.

On the other hand, the Five Factor Model, as tested by the NEO-PI-R (NEO personality inventory, revised), has shown test-retest reliability stretching out over 6 years (that is, scores are about the same even when the second test is years after the first). But what you end up with is a number on each of 30 scales, which are relatively meaningless to most people, rather than a handy acronym that you can have printed on a t-shirt and devote yourself to.



INTJ INTJ INTJ INTJ INFP INFJ INTP Woo!



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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:35 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Myers-Briggs is kind of a scam. I mean, it's interesting, but only something like 50% of people have the same result after a year. They even say in the manual that the thinking-feeling dichotomy isn't reliable, and that the whole thing's questionable with kids. Which makes getting attached to being an INTJ or whatever even sillier.


It comes off to me as wholly and entirely useless and ridiculous. I mean, as far as I know, only introversion/extroversion has any real sort of testable power in terms of actionable diagnostic criteria about a person's core personality attributes. Might as well tell me your astrological sign yo

But seriously I'm always excited to see NLP pop up. it's the most bullshit thing any of my friends ever fell for, short of homeopathy.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wake up, people. The fourth world war is going to be between esfaps and intjas. You need to know which side you're going to be on.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Myers-Briggs is kind of a scam. I mean, it's interesting, but only something like 50% of people have the same result after a year. They even say in the manual that the thinking-feeling dichotomy isn't reliable, and that the whole thing's questionable with kids. Which makes getting attached to being an INTJ or whatever even sillier.


It comes off to me as wholly and entirely useless and ridiculous. I mean, as far as I know, only introversion/extroversion has any real sort of testable power in terms of actionable diagnostic criteria about a person's core personality attributes. Might as well tell me your astrological sign yo

The National Academy of Sciences reviewed literature on the MBTI and found the introversion-extraversion (I-E) dichotomy was the only one that had construct validity. The sensing-intuition (S-N) and thinking-feeling (T-F) dichotomies were found to have very low construct validity (that is, measuring what they claim to measure).

Here's the kicker, though: the MBTI really is just like a horoscope. The report it gives you is mostly positive, starting out by telling you how nice it is to be an ESFP or whatever. That, plus the belief that it's tailored to you (the Forer effect) means almost everyone's first impression of the MBTI is that it's amazingly accurate. Even if they're reading someone else's report. Try it. Here are six (of 16) very general descriptions. Which one (1-6) are you?

Quote:
X are practical, realistic, and matter-of-fact, with a natural head for business or mechanics. Though they are not interested in subjects they see no use for, they can apply themselves when necessary. They like to organize and run activities. Xs make good administrators, especially if they remember to consider others' feelings and points of view, which they often miss.


Quote:
Xs are strong individualists who seek new angles or novel ways of looking at things. They enjoy coming to new understandings. They tend to be insightful and mentally quick; however, this mental quickness may not always be outwardly apparent to others since they keep a great deal to themselves. They are very determined people who trust their vision of the possibilities, regardless of what others think. They may even be considered the most independent of all of the sixteen personality types. Xs are at their best in quietly and firmly developing their ideas, theories, and principles.


Quote:
Observant, practical, realistic, and specific, Xs make decisions according to their own personal standards. They use their judgment internally to identify and empathize with others. Naturally attentive to the world around them, Xs are keen observers of human behavior. They quickly sense what is happening with other people and immediately respond to their individual needs. They are especially good at mobilizing people to deal with crises. Generous, optimistic, and persuasive, they are good at interpersonal interactions. They often play the role of peacemaker due to their warm, sympathetic, and tactful nature.


Quote:
According to Myers-Briggs, Xs are peaceful, easygoing people who adopt a "live and let live" approach to life. They enjoy taking things at their own pace and tend to live in the moment. Although quiet, they are pleasant, considerate, caring, and devoted to the people in their lives. Though not inclined to debate or necessarily even air their views, their values are important to them.


Quote:
Xs often excel in business and other areas that require systems analysis, original thinking, and an economically savvy mind. They are dynamic and pragmatic problem solvers. They tend to have a high degree of confidence in their own abilities, making them assertive and outspoken. In their dealings with others, they are generally outgoing, charismatic, fair-minded, and unaffected by conflict or criticism. However, these qualities can make Xs appear arrogant, insensitive, and confrontational. They can overwhelm others with their energy and desire to order the world according to their own vision. As a result, they may seem intimidating, hasty, and controlling.


Quote:
According to Myers-Briggs, Xs focus much of their energy on an inner world dominated by intense feeling and deeply held ethics. They seek an external life that is in keeping with these values. Loyal to the people and causes important to them, Xs can quickly spot opportunities to implement their ideals. They are curious to understand those around them, and so are accepting and flexible except when their values are threatened.

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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My god! I must be an ESNTFJP
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Sam wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Myers-Briggs is kind of a scam. I mean, it's interesting, but only something like 50% of people have the same result after a year. They even say in the manual that the thinking-feeling dichotomy isn't reliable, and that the whole thing's questionable with kids. Which makes getting attached to being an INTJ or whatever even sillier.


It comes off to me as wholly and entirely useless and ridiculous. I mean, as far as I know, only introversion/extroversion has any real sort of testable power in terms of actionable diagnostic criteria about a person's core personality attributes. Might as well tell me your astrological sign yo

The National Academy of Sciences reviewed literature on the MBTI and found the introversion-extraversion (I-E) dichotomy was the only one that had construct validity. The sensing-intuition (S-N) and thinking-feeling (T-F) dichotomies were found to have very low construct validity (that is, measuring what they claim to measure).

Here's the kicker, though: the MBTI really is just like a horoscope. The report it gives you is mostly positive, starting out by telling you how nice it is to be an ESFP or whatever. That, plus the belief that it's tailored to you (the Forer effect) means almost everyone's first impression of the MBTI is that it's amazingly accurate. Even if they're reading someone else's report. Try it. Here are six (of 16) very general descriptions. Which one (1-6) are you?


This makes SOO much sense. My own scores (I've taken it like 6-7 times over the years) are always WAY skewed towards E, but then really close on everything else. I've always felt that I could answer most of the questions with : "Depends on how I'm feeling that day."
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, so that's a state-trait problem. States are, obviously, transient emotional periods, while traits are long-term emotional dispositions. There are measures that do a good job distinguishing between the two (like the State-Trait Anxiety Inventory), but the MBTI isn't one of them.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Quote:
Xs are strong individualists who seek new angles or novel ways of looking at things. They enjoy coming to new understandings. They tend to be insightful and mentally quick; however, this mental quickness may not always be outwardly apparent to others since they keep a great deal to themselves. They are very determined people who trust their vision of the possibilities, regardless of what others think. They may even be considered the most independent of all of the sixteen personality types. Xs are at their best in quietly and firmly developing their ideas, theories, and principles.

I think this means I'll be sorted into Ravenclaw.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


"Ahh, right then... right... INT-- uhh, Ravenclaw!"
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may have possibly been put here, but nevertheless, I love it.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, Yilleno it hasn't been posted yet but only because you totally beat me to it. That really is a fantastic article.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is. That's going to help me phrase things in a way that will be even harder to wiggle around.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I followed the link to the summary of the study, printed the entire thing out for reading over lunch, and then headed off to class. As I perused the study over a taco bowl in the student union later that day I wondered why I had never been told any of this. I was shocked to find that the countries with the lowest abortion rates are the ones where abortion is most legal and available, and the countries with the highest abortion rates are generally the ones where the practice is illegal.


Organized teen/young american pro-life groups have at least anecdotally been a netherworld of shitty pseudoscience and outright incorrect information that is stuck with simply because it sounds good to someone that adamantly opposed to abortion.

My first public speaking class in college included some back and forth with a girl who used the class as a soapbox to tell us about how you could fit earth's entire population into texas and feed it all comfortably and easily with the available arable land in that state alone. Like they legitimately believed this because you have to shut down the notion that population is or will ever conceivably be an issue.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas friedman has some good points too.

but seriously - you could fit the entire world population into texas? she doesn't know much math, either, i take it.

or else she figures the entire world population will be happy to spend their lives standing shoulder to shoulder.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the need to work this out, just for the fun of it. Texas has an area of 696,241km^2. The World Bank puts the current population at 6,973,738,433. That gives us 0.00009983755581km^2 per person, or roughly 1 square centimeter.

Then we need to grow food for everyone with all of that arable land.
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