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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of my closest female friends (at least one of whom is definitely a feminist) have bought into the bullshit that is the 'fake geek girl' so I'm not even a little surprised to hear that.

It's just... we've ALL met that chick that manipulated insecure guys by being sexy I think? The thing is, that has literally nothing to do with how much of a geek she may be (in the case of the woman I'm thinking of, she was definitely as much of a nerd as I am and genuinely loved geeky things like Magic and D&D and stuff). She was just also manipulative and used people. The two traits were not related.

She's also the one my ex cheated on me with, so it's not like I don't have an excuse to vilify her more, but I refuse because she wasn't any less of a geek for being an asshole.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Some of my closest female friends (at least one of whom is definitely a feminist) have bought into the bullshit that is the 'fake geek girl' so I'm not even a little surprised to hear that.

It's just... we've ALL met that chick that manipulated insecure guys by being sexy I think? The thing is, that has literally nothing to do with how much of a geek she may be (in the case of the woman I'm thinking of, she was definitely as much of a nerd as I am and genuinely loved geeky things like Magic and D&D and stuff). She was just also manipulative and used people. The two traits were not related.

She's also the one my ex cheated on me with, so it's not like I don't have an excuse to vilify her more, but I refuse because she wasn't any less of a geek for being an asshole.


Aye. I think in some cases it may just be male geeks becoming inherently defensive after having been manipulated in such a way. It's a SHIATTY and over-reactionary defense mechanism, but no one said people always had good coping skills.

In other cases, it's completely just misogyny.

It's weird that the 'fake geek girl' thing resonates so strongly, though. Maybe a lot of nerd guys internalized the whole 'NO WOMEN LIKE YOUR HOBBY! NEERDDSSS' bit that was coming from society/popular culture for decades? (Right up until geek/nerdy became more trendy and mainstream?) So any woman, especially an attractive one, who's in the hobby causes them to react with suspicion?

Sort of like how physicists tend to get suspicious when people at, well, physics gatherings show up in three piece suits.

(Not that this excuses this, I'm just wondering about the *Reasons* it resonates so well.)

You know this would actually be an interesting basis for a sociological study, I bet...
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
It's weird that the 'fake geek girl' thing resonates so strongly, though. Maybe a lot of nerd guys internalized the whole 'NO WOMEN LIKE YOUR HOBBY! NEERDDSSS' bit that was coming from society/popular culture for decades? (Right up until geek/nerdy became more trendy and mainstream?) So any woman, especially an attractive one, who's in the hobby causes them to react with suspicion?

I'm sure that plays a part in it... probably a pretty significant part, even. Media representation sure didn't help any.

It reminds me of high school... walked into a magic card shop once wearing an old bomber jacket and looking not exactly feminine and literally every dude there turned to stare at me simultaneously. It was extraordinarily uncomfortable. Some of 'em never did look away, I had to just leave to stop getting stared at. There was absolutely zero question that I was a scary outsider.

Felgraf wrote:
Sort of like how physicists tend to get suspicious when people at, well, physics gatherings show up in three piece suits.

(Not that this excuses this, I'm just wondering about the *Reasons* it resonates so well.)

You know this would actually be an interesting basis for a sociological study, I bet...

I'm... not really familiar with the social dynamics of physics gatherings, so I guess I can't comment on that, heh. As far as reasons go, it's likely there are a lot of them, though prime and center is the sexist idea that "girls don't like nerd things" and a healthy dose of lonely guy resentment.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also the upset over jocks muscling in on geek territory, and how the True Geeks have to weed out posers who are set to trample their very special community in which they have all rights to whining and being crowned king.

Because no one can just do a thing they like and have fun together ever.

Oh, and I nearly forgot the other part to the 'fake geek girl' thing. It shrinks down the geek dating pool, because geeks will go to a geek gathering place expecting to have a chance with any female type being, but then all these 'out of your league' mean creatures who would otherwise be stomping on geek necks in stiletto heels are there instead.

In other words, most of it seems to come from crappy films and sitcoms, and all kinds of highschool type stereotypes.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
There is also the upset over jocks muscling in on geek territory, and how the True Geeks have to weed out posers who are set to trample their very special community in which they have all rights to whining and being crowned king.

Because no one can just do a thing they like and have fun together ever.

Oh, and I nearly forgot the other part to the 'fake geek girl' thing. It shrinks down the geek dating pool, because geeks will go to a geek gathering place expecting to have a chance with any female type being, but then all these 'out of your league' mean creatures who would otherwise be stomping on geek necks in stiletto heels are there instead.

In other words, most of it seems to come from crappy films and sitcoms, and all kinds of highschool type stereotypes.


The simple fact is, many geeks, like many people, are shitty human beings. Generally to afford the kind of money you spend on geeky pursuits you have to have a certain degree of "well off" compared to the rest of the world. And the entitlement that breeds is.....insane.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:/ It is sad. I just stay in a small geek circle to avoid that kind of thing.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it worse that geeks claim they need to be themselves, they've been bullied and thus they are the underdogs... and yet bully the shit out of pretty much everyone.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read many an article about that, Yinello. There's this mentality that if you were bullied as a kid you somehow get the right to be an asshole as an adult.

Shockingly, people are now saying "No, that just means you're now the asshole you hated." This is usually met with wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I have read many an article about that, Yinello. There's this mentality that if you were bullied as a kid you somehow get the right to be an asshole as an adult.

Shockingly, people are now saying "No, that just means you're now the asshole you hated." This is usually met with wailing and gnashing of teeth.


I'm pleased that some of my friends (Judges in the Magic; The Gathering community) are among those doing the calling out in the later case. (I'm not a Magic player, but a looott of my friends from highschool are).
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's part of the reciprocal and cyclical nature of abuse. The effects of being abused (such as bullying) can be at once profound but insidiously subtle. It can take a lot of introspection to catch them working on you because it affects how you think and react, not just what you think or react to.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CONsent. It's sad that this project needs to exist at all, but the enthusiasm and work going into it is pretty cool to see all the same. Figured I'd signal boost since I don't have any con plans yet this year.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
CONsent. It's sad that this project needs to exist at all, but the enthusiasm and work going into it is pretty cool to see all the same. Figured I'd signal boost since I don't have any con plans yet this year.


The one bit of confusion I had with regard to it was "...These can be as seemingly harmless and annoying as not asking for permission before taking a picture..."

That's... not really something I'd thought of before? And seems like it would be incredibly unwieldy if you're trying to, well, take picture of cool cosplay costumes. I honestly would think constantly getting asked if your picture could be taken would get even *more* annoying, especially if you are dressed as something interesting and recognizable? (Whether it's the ANGRY MOON from Majora's Mask). I suppose I just slightly objected to the implication that "People that take pictures of cosplayers without going up to them first are being creeps!". Because I'm pretty sure in some cases, it's more "HOLY SHIAT COOL COSPLAY COSTUME THAT'S INCREDIBLE I have to take a picture of that! Ah,t hey're busy, I'll just snap a quick photo to show my friends." Lord knows I did that when I was a young, teen con goer.

I suppose it was just a bit of con ettiquite that seemed somewhat non-intuitive. Perhaps I'm just dense, though...


(There was a couple dressed as a black mage and a white mage... with a baby in a stroller. As a red mage. It was the most adorable thing in the world.
... Until I saw them again a few years later, with the former-red-mage baby now a toddler in a Vash the Stampede outfit, and a *new* baby in the stroller. As Wolfwood. WITH A PLUSH CROSS PUNISHER. This has nothing to do with the topic, I just wanted to share the most adorable cosplay I'd ever seen.)

Other than that mild confusion/quibble, thanks for the link!
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, tangentially related. Something that was recently pointed out to me, and that I would LOVE to start seeing in comic books:

(Though I am admittedly not a huge comic book person)

[url] http://www.geeknative.com/38733/drawing-the-impossible-fully-dressed-superheroines/ [/url]

I think these just look.. better and more interesting than the standard "Bare midrifffff low cut shiiirt!"

Supergirl's outfit, for instance, is just *incredible*.

(I also noticed: NO HIGH HEELS. Yay. That always bugged the crap out of me. "You are a crime fighter who very likely highly values high mobility. WHY ARE YOU BEING DRAWN IN HIGH HEELS.")
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"No, but evil is still being --Is having reason-- Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
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DeD CHiKn



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Supergirl's outfit, for instance, is just *incredible*.


Baggy boots offer too much wind resistance when flying.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Supergirl's outfit, for instance, is just *incredible*.


Baggy boots offer too much wind resistance when flying.


Hrm, fair point, her boots don't make much sense for the outfit, but I like the aesthetic of the rest?

Honestly I'm not sure why superheroes don't just wear converse sneakers for some things.
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