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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, reading this page I want to stress that I am not in any way telling people what to do. I was simply commenting on what I perceived as the issue and may have pointed out specific things that contributed to the problem, but I didn't intend to imply that not doing that was in any way something you should do because of acceptance or any of that nonsense. All I want to do is identify the problem first, giving a solution seems presumptuous because I do not believe I have identified the problem exactly yet anyway.


I also want everyone to understand that the last discussion I had where emotions got sorta heated was about whether or not wet sand on the beach qualifies as mud. It still hasn't been settled but I was pretty adamant that it totally wasn't mud and one of my best friends was absolutely convinced it was. Studying philosophy is a hell of a drug.


I think the issue I'm highlighting with regards to misunderstanding and clarity within the discussion and advocating of gay and transgender and queer right is absolutely an important note but I don't think my being right about wet sand not being mud means I'm right about the issue. I'm no expert. (though I will claim I'm an expert on any topic when asked by any government agency.)
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GROUP HUG
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's cool, thank you. I've had plenty of conversations where people were saying that trans people should be nice and pleasant and educate everyone. Most memorable was a trans person saying we should all be 'beacons.' (And many a commenter responded with snarky jokes about light houses. I've seen otherwise reasonable people argue stuff like that before, so it wasn't out of the realm of possibility.

The employment non-discrimination act is continually thrown under the bus, and there was a huge dick move a few years ago when the Democrats (Particularly Barney Frank) decided to remove trans people from it because then maybe it would pass. There's a history of saying, "Oh, we'll come back for you" and then that never happens. There is also snarkiness among the gay community about how trans people are 'riding the coat-tails' of gay activism, as if trans people haven't done anything, and are newly arrived on the scene expecting to just be handed rights on a silver platter. But trans people have been fighting for at least as long; there were trans people at Stonewall, for instance.

I understand that people still need to be educated, and thankfully there are lots of people doing that educating. The fact there are trans support groups for parents whose kids have come out to them is huge, and there have been a number of other gains as well. But because there are plenty of people who imagine trans people came out of nowhere and just decided to co-opt gay progress. There is also a history of gay people taking transgender historical figures and labeling them as gay.

I brought up Paula Deen because she said she didn't know any better. There are people who are raised in racist environments who don't know any better. I wanted to see this thing about trans people translated over to how people react to racist actions and words even if the person committing them doesn't know any better.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:

The employment non-discrimination act is continually thrown under the bus, and there was a huge dick move a few years ago when the Democrats (Particularly Barney Frank) decided to remove trans people from it because then maybe it would pass. There's a history of saying, "Oh, we'll come back for you" and then that never happens. There is also snarkiness among the gay community about how trans people are 'riding the coat-tails' of gay activism, as if trans people haven't done anything, and are newly arrived on the scene expecting to just be handed rights on a silver platter. But trans people have been fighting for at least as long; there were trans people at Stonewall, for instance.


Martin Luther King wrote:


We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly I have never yet engaged in a direct action movement that was "well timed," according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."


Word.

Not to draw direct lines to those struggles but I totally get not being okay with being put on hold because it's not your time or some shit. It's bullshit.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis J. Squidbunny wrote:
GROUP HUG


Are you saying that wet sand is mud?

Because if so I will fight you.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't want to co-opt anything, but there are times when parallels are useful. I think most minorities are told always to wait for the right opportunity, but it's frustrating when it comes from other minorities, as if fighting each other solves anything.

During a support group meeting I attended years ago, one of the attendees who had newly come out as trans said, "Well, now I know how black people feel." That was bizarre, but that kind of sentiment is far too common.

Anyway, I think I've been increasingly upset because while there are some really good bits of progress that happen, there are still plenty of things that haven't changed, or places where the progress isn't touching. Washington State is nearly a transgender paradise, because we can't get fired or lose housing for being trans; marriage equality just happened; it is super easy to change names and gender markers on ID cards; and hormones seem to be pretty easy to acquire for a lot of people. If it turns out the new regulation for Social Security which says that people just need a letter from a doctor saying they are trans rather than proof of surgery means we can bypass birth certificate regulations, and trans people are allowed to join the military - then holy shit that is some sweet legal equality. I did the social security change recently, and it just dawned on me that I get to be a legal person now, which is something I just kind of put to one side, and so that was awesome - and then all the places that isn't true, and all the bullshit that's still out there.

And weirdly one of the first things that happened after the social security thing was revealed to me - I felt hugely inspired to fix my financial situation. I think because everything feels more stable, and I get to be an adult. Or something like that.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripy - would you mind sharing a quick biopsy? You certainly can refuse but I would like to know your story. You have referred to a number of things on this forum but I have little to no context. Nor do I know many trans people (I know one but it isn't a close relationship - it is a person I knew from high school and a LOT has happened since then to both of us).
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could try doing a biopsy, but I never went to medical school....

I can write up a little thing tomorrow maybe. It's a bit late tonight and I should get to bed.
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Arc Tempest



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, in Britain, it's illegal to not disclose your original gender to sexual partners.

All of my wut.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is some evil, unnecessary shit.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's bullshit.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. Meanwhile, it's still not ILLEGAL to not tell someone you're married up front.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:

I also want everyone to understand that the last discussion I had where emotions got sorta heated was about whether or not wet sand on the beach qualifies as mud. It still hasn't been settled but I was pretty adamant that it totally wasn't mud and one of my best friends was absolutely convinced it was. Studying philosophy is a hell of a drug.


if it helps, geologically you are completely correct. from here
Quote:
mud

Wet clay and silt-rich sediment.

where
Quote:

clay

A family of platy silicate minerals that commonly form as a product of rock weathering. Also, any particle smaller than 1/256 of a millimeter in diameter.


and
Quote:

silt

Loose particles of rock or mineral (sediment) that range in size from 0.002 - 0.0625 millimeters in diameter. Silt is finer than sand, but coarser than clay.


(
Quote:
sand
Loose particles of rock or mineral (sediment) that range in size from 0.0625 - 2.0 millimeters in diameter.
)

so _totally_ different stuff.
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Arc Tempest



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, mud is generally defined as wet soil with a high clay content and low permeability. Sand (or at least beach sand and very sandy soils) will never behave similarly to mud when wet.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
stripy - would you mind sharing a quick biopsy? You certainly can refuse but I would like to know your story. You have referred to a number of things on this forum but I have little to no context. Nor do I know many trans people (I know one but it isn't a close relationship - it is a person I knew from high school and a LOT has happened since then to both of us).


It turns out I'm not really up to writing anything like that just now. I may write something up later, probably in the gender and sexuality thread, or I'll make a post on some other site and link to it.
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