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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
wo ho ho it's just a joke ho ho ho she shouldn't be so sensitive hue hue hue boys will be boys it's just some guy on twitter saying he will rape her anus dry why she gotta get her panties in a twist about it, we're not going to do anything about it. sincerely, twitter.

seriously, I know I said it before, but the response to her videos is so remarkably telling in light of how straightforward and reasonable they are. these fuckers go berserk on her even when she's being patient and providing a nuanced study of sexism in media with every caveat you could ever want. She's intellectually strenuous, her points are cogent and explored in multiple dimensions, she carefully lines out her case and explains the stakes and the social implications, and the end result is that fuckin baby-ass gamers the world over lose their shit and become rabid flaming fuckshits to her.

I know this is the internet and there will always be a terrible background radiation of the very dregs of society pseudo-literately hurling garbage onto the undercurrents of everything, but something about her and her videos has this magical capacity to stir up the dregs from their hive and throw them front and center in a turgid display of the very worst we collectively have to offer.


I think the biggest problem here is that a lot of gamers take this to a personal level and see her attacking a game they like and feel it is an attack on themselves. If people took a step back and realized that such criticism was perhaps warranted and just and that criticizing the game doesn't have to mean she's condemning it or it's players, I imagine there'd be a lot less rage. But then again, that might be asking a lot of the kind of people whose first reaction to someone criticizing a game is a rape threat.

It's funny because there are some reasonable criticisms of some of the arguments Sarkeesian has made, but everyone decides to flip the fuck out rather than actually have a civilized discussion or debate like a decent human being.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like there's got to be more to it than that, honestly.

She literally opens every video with some variant of "it's both possible and even necessary to simultaneously enjoy media, while also being critical of it's more problematic aspects".

I'm sure people still take it personally, but that can't be the only reason. I mean people fail really basic listening comprehension all the time but that is taking it to a really extreme level.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:

It's funny because there are some reasonable criticisms of some of the arguments Sarkeesian has made, but everyone decides to flip the fuck out rather than actually have a civilized discussion or debate like a decent human being.


There's your problem, you operate under the assumption that they are decent human beings.

They're not.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I feel like there's got to be more to it than that, honestly.

She literally opens every video with some variant of "it's both possible and even necessary to simultaneously enjoy media, while also being critical of it's more problematic aspects".

I'm sure people still take it personally, but that can't be the only reason. I mean people fail really basic listening comprehension all the time but that is taking it to a really extreme level.

I'm going to call here 'Anna' for this post, not because I know her, but because I'm lazy and here first name is easy to type.

Anywho, for Anna there's a few things going on which simultaneously make her successful and the target of extra ire.

First off, she's "good looking". Now I'm not saying in any sort of sexual way, I'm saying that she has great aesthetic value in front of the camera i.e. She doesn't just look like 'some kid' in a bedroom with a camera. Her videos, even pre-kickstarter money, looked like there was real effort put into them. All of this visual stuff makes her "more threatening" IF you're of a mindset that views what she's saying with hostility and ire. I say that because it seems that since she has presented a 'serious looking' (i.e. professional looking) presentation from the beginning, this has lead to more people responding to her as opposed to just ignoring her, while at the same time attracting more supporters.

Which leads to another reason: she's successful. Of course this wasn't a factor at first, but she's taken off pretty quick. As much as everyone loves to love a winner, we love to hate them too. There is always going to be this population that will hate successful things for being successful. If that something successful is a thing they feel threatened by, they are going to hate it that much more.

While these first two are factors, I think they mainly add to the real cause of her fame: Anna speaks very plainly, very frankly, in a way and to a degree that that has nearly universal appeal. She naturally doesn't talk like an irrational teen or young adult spewing vitriol, but she also isn't talking down to her audience from some idealistic ivory perch. Instead, Anna is (equivalently) sitting across from you at the booth in a local restaurant, a mixed group of friends and associates gathered around, as she waxes philosophical on what's fucked up and how to make it better. Her delivery comes across so simply, so plainly "in your face obvious", that it makes it harder to argue with. You might even find yourself agreeing with her before you realize it-- "OMFG NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" go the MRA brains. So they spew out vitriol. And Hate. And threats. Because it's all they can to attempt to assuage their cognitive dissonance, which they really can't, so they go and kick the dog, or what ever it is they do.

tl;dr The more hate she gets, the more likely she is actually changing people's minds, cognitive dissonance and whatnot.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... Her name isn't Anna.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thewildeternal.com/2013/07/30/sorry-mario-bros/
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*dupe*

Last edited by WheelsOfConfusion on Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*trupe*
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*quadrupe*

Sheesh, I submitted the comment ONCE and then when that timed out I hit the Resend button ONCE.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
... Her name isn't Anna.


D'oh! Embarassed
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Mikewee777



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[STRIPEY PANTS WINS THE MEMETIC ROUND. 9999 points]


Last edited by Mikewee777 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I feel so educated thank you for the picture which tells me that women's rights activists are not actually feminists because feminist is a dirty word that means someone who overreacts in a hypervigilant female way that's so cool of you to educate me thanks i mean it's not like the things feminists talk about online are actually important harassment and rape and all that that's just bullshit first world problems all the stupid feminists should just shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut.

Today's message has been brought to you by: Sincere Appreciation For Your Beautiful Explanation
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I found an interesting article about *where* some of the male-freakouts come from ( http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/brand-men-must-be-needed-because-we-cant-be-wanted/ )

Now, I should note my take on the article was *not* an attack of feminism, *or* a "Oh but you should feel pity on men, they are SO OPPRESSED TOO". Rather, I saw it as a "That freakout a chunk of men are having about not being needed? This is potentially what it's rooted in." More of a factual/enlightenment piece, than a.. I guess what we'd calls "MRA" around here.

... I really, really wish I hadn't started reading the comments, though.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
So I found an interesting article about *where* some of the male-freakouts come from ( http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/brand-men-must-be-needed-because-we-cant-be-wanted/ )

Now, I should note my take on the article was *not* an attack of feminism, *or* a "Oh but you should feel pity on men, they are SO OPPRESSED TOO". Rather, I saw it as a "That freakout a chunk of men are having about not being needed? This is potentially what it's rooted in." More of a factual/enlightenment piece, than a.. I guess what we'd calls "MRA" around here.

... I really, really wish I hadn't started reading the comments, though.

Doesn't the entirety of male oppression against women all go back to 'fragile male egos'? I mean, doesn't it really come down to "x treats y shitty to make x feel better about themselves".

This here sums up what's going on in the insecure male mind:

felgraf's artice wrote:
The core issue is this: many, many men in our society feel they have to be needed, because they canít imagine they could ever be wanted.

Being needed can take different forms, all of which resemble traditional male roles. Brave protector against danger. Breadwinning economic provider. Indispensable handyman. Problem-solving leader. We get any more macho stereotypes in here, itís gonna look like a Village People reunion. This is what being masculine means in our culture: to be necessary.


Ok one more quote from the article, from the end:

Quote:
Let me be clear: I know this is stupid. I know itís asinine social programming and that these women consider me sexually and emotionally desirable. But thereís a difference between knowing that and believing it. And for guys who havenít got a girlfriend, who feel the bitter sting of active rejection or the endless cold of passive rejection, who yearn for love and sex and the touch of another handÖ what can they possibly believe about being wanted?

The fact is, as Iíve learned during prolonged periods of loneliness myself, when a a lifetime of ďEwwww, gross, naked guy!Ē jokes combine with stretches of personal rejection, itís easy to feel neither wanted nor needed. Maybe youíre lucky enough to have a job where your particular abilities are necessary, so thatís a form of being needed, one you can throw yourself into, but itís not the same as being needed by another person. Being wanted by another person, at that point, has disappeared over the horizon, into an unmarked area of the map labeled HERE BE UNICORNS THAT DISPENSE FREE MONEY.

Itís easy to get bitter when you feel unwanted, and so this unfortunate confluence of forces has left our culture littered with embittered men who get very upset about what they canít help but perceive as their own failure. Itís easy to dismiss them as angry losers or some other convenient pejorative, but Iíve walked a few too many miles in their shoes to call their pain baseless. I donít pretend to have a solution, but the least we can do is begin to correctly identify the problem.

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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
So I found an interesting article about *where* some of the male-freakouts come from ( http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/brand-men-must-be-needed-because-we-cant-be-wanted/ )

Now, I should note my take on the article was *not* an attack of feminism, *or* a "Oh but you should feel pity on men, they are SO OPPRESSED TOO". Rather, I saw it as a "That freakout a chunk of men are having about not being needed? This is potentially what it's rooted in." More of a factual/enlightenment piece, than a.. I guess what we'd calls "MRA" around here.

... I really, really wish I hadn't started reading the comments, though.

Doesn't the entirety of male oppression against women all go back to 'fragile male egos'? I mean, doesn't it really come down to "x treats y shitty to make x feel better about themselves".

This here sums up what's going on in the insecure male mind:

felgraf's artice wrote:
The core issue is this: many, many men in our society feel they have to be needed, because they canít imagine they could ever be wanted.

Being needed can take different forms, all of which resemble traditional male roles. Brave protector against danger. Breadwinning economic provider. Indispensable handyman. Problem-solving leader. We get any more macho stereotypes in here, itís gonna look like a Village People reunion. This is what being masculine means in our culture: to be necessary.


Ok one more quote from the article, from the end:

Quote:
Let me be clear: I know this is stupid. I know itís asinine social programming and that these women consider me sexually and emotionally desirable. But thereís a difference between knowing that and believing it. And for guys who havenít got a girlfriend, who feel the bitter sting of active rejection or the endless cold of passive rejection, who yearn for love and sex and the touch of another handÖ what can they possibly believe about being wanted?

The fact is, as Iíve learned during prolonged periods of loneliness myself, when a a lifetime of ďEwwww, gross, naked guy!Ē jokes combine with stretches of personal rejection, itís easy to feel neither wanted nor needed. Maybe youíre lucky enough to have a job where your particular abilities are necessary, so thatís a form of being needed, one you can throw yourself into, but itís not the same as being needed by another person. Being wanted by another person, at that point, has disappeared over the horizon, into an unmarked area of the map labeled HERE BE UNICORNS THAT DISPENSE FREE MONEY.

Itís easy to get bitter when you feel unwanted, and so this unfortunate confluence of forces has left our culture littered with embittered men who get very upset about what they canít help but perceive as their own failure. Itís easy to dismiss them as angry losers or some other convenient pejorative, but Iíve walked a few too many miles in their shoes to call their pain baseless. I donít pretend to have a solution, but the least we can do is begin to correctly identify the problem.


eh, I suspect saying *all* of it stems from that is an over-simplifcation. It does help it become a self-reinforcing cycle, certainly. (Damn positive feedback loops.)
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