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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to remember this the next time I have the gender gap argument. Women start with lower salaries even when they have the same degree and work in the same type of job in the same sector as men. That puts a crimp in the two most common arguments I hear: that women have lower pay either because they choose careers that give them flexibility to have families, or because they put off career goals in order to them. Neither of those pan out if they don't even start at the same wage right out of college.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Principal to students: "Modest is hottest... boys will be boys."
Student to principal: "Umm... No."
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I need to remember this the next time I have the gender gap argument. Women start with lower salaries even when they have the same degree and work in the same type of job in the same sector as men. That puts a crimp in the two most common arguments I hear: that women have lower pay either because they choose careers that give them flexibility to have families, or because they put off career goals in order to them. Neither of those pan out if they don't even start at the same wage right out of college.


Well then prepare for the "women suck at negotiating a decent salary!" arguments.

Which might actually be the truth considering the way women are conditioned to be less confrontational and up front. But it's is equally possible that women are just offered less from the get go, though I imagine that varies by profession. And it might not even be a conscious thing.

The era of obvious wage discrimination and obvious bullshit selection is gone mostly but there is still silent wage discrimination that requires speaking up. If you're in a discussion about wage gaps it's smart to pay attention to overt vs silent discrimination. The most likely way people will argue the point is that they'll say overt discrimination is over so it's all bollocks.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Snorri wrote:
stripeypants wrote:

I'd like to see specifically what they plan to do in order to make sure this doesn't happen again. What organizations do they plan to work with? What penance are they going to do?

That doesn't strike me as part of an apology. Apologising for and explaining what you plan to do to make up for it are different things. I imagine they're thinking about that right now.


I've seen and made apologies where that was done. A basic version is, "I am sorry. Here is what I meant to do, and here is my understanding of how I failed at doing that. To show that I am sincere and this is not just for show, here is how I will make sure this mistake does not happen in the future."

That kind of apology is often issued in customer service. Something like, "I'm sorry that you're having this terrible experience and we want to make this right. So to do that, we are going to ______. We hope that you will continue to be our customer." The most frequent place I encounter this is Dominoes, because my roommate never hesitates to say when he's disappointed. They send around coupons with a note that basically says, "Wow, we screwed up! Thanks for letting us know, and here is something to make up for it."

Out in meatspace, when I have to make an apology, this is how I handle them. It works well when I'm able to communicate.

If it's a boundary related thing, then, "I'm sorry I stepped over your boundary and/or didn't realize that the boundary existed. So that we don't have any future problems, let's work out how we'll handle this in the future."

There's no reason they can't offer that. Since this is one of the things I'd like to see and I was asked what I thought would improve the apology, that's what I offered.



Oh I don't disagree with it being the good thing to do, I just thought that the post didn't need it. Because I'm thinking that considering the issue it's sensible to be very mindful of what steps to take and how even to proceed. I don't think Simmons completely gets the whole issue and I think it's smart of him not to immediately act like he knows everything now.

Like, I learn new stuff all the time about these issues and I have to pretty frequently rethink my outlook. I read the gender identity thread and posts by a lot of people make me go "oh shit, I didn't even consider that.". So I kinda get that one wouldn't want to jump the gun of the exact things you want to do to fix it because you probably don't know enough yet. Obviously they should do something but I think at the moment it might be premature.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He didn't make an immediate apology, so he had time to, at the very least, contact some groups and say, "Hey, my staff is ignorant. Can we work together in the future to come up with some solutions?" I am pretty sure that there were some different groups and individuals who he could have contacted. They wouldn't have had to come up with a complete solution, either. And this apology was not put out the day the article was published. There was at least some time for reflection, which means there was time to do what I suggested.

I think they made mistakes. I think they've earned the reaction they got. A lot of other trans people do too. There's a reason for that. I sympathize with them as fellow human beings, but it does no good to go easy on them and say, "Awww, it's okay, you didn't know what you were doing, and at least you feel bad about it!" They do need to learn their lesson, but we are beyond the point where having basic correct info about trans people is an unrequired novelty. So apologies for mistakes like this need to be better as well.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I was reading a think on cracked, and it said that people used to believe Asians had sideways vaginas... like the vulva is oriented horizontally... and then it said if you google it you can find people who still believe it and oh my god you fucking can.

Jesus Christ.




I need to become a sex ed teacher again just so I don't feel like gouging my own eyeballs out every time I think about how poorly informed kids are.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
So I was reading a think on cracked, and it said that people used to believe Asians had sideways vaginas... like the vulva is oriented horizontally... and then it said if you google it you can find people who still believe it and oh my god you fucking can.

Jesus Christ.




I need to become a sex ed teacher again just so I don't feel like gouging my own eyeballs out every time I think about how poorly informed kids are.


Please tell me these people are just 5 year olds whose parents are too afraid to talk to them about sex.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that was a racist joke people made while knowing it is untrue. Wow.


This discussion of women and short hair is neat, and I think very relevant to the reaction some people have to Nique's short hair.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/2014/01/why-patriarchy-fears-scissors-women-short-hair-political-statement
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a really well written article, stripey, thanks for linking to it.

I'm so tempted to cut all my hair off but it is really freaking cold out and I do have a wedding to be in later this year. Not sure when it's gunna get chopped, but it's definitely gunna happen eventually. What she said about not feeling like yourself? So true, and it's getting uncomfortable.

(Also every now and then I remember that I was forced to agree to grow it out with my ex, who threatened to stop shaving if I didn't. I wish I had taken the opportunity to cut all my hair off and then stop shaving as well just to call his fucking bluff, the asshole.)
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to grow mine out, but not enough funds for haircuts means it grows out funny. So I buzz most of it off periodically now. It's kind of badly cut, but that's not as noticeable with a buzzer vs trying to trim long hair by hand with scissors.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, there's a few stages of growing out that are just excruciating to get through, for sure. My hair is long enough now that even though it's probably crazy uneven it doesn't look too abysmal (and I keep it pulled back anyway because ugh putting work into hair ugh) so I just ignore it for long periods of time.

I wanna go back to weird uneven looks. They might be more work, but they make me feel more comfortable in my own skin. I might start with something similar to Natalie Dormer's new hair cut because ugh yess god that looks so cool.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a great hairdo, and a great way to show off cool earrings that only come one per set.

I love knotwork, which is based on braids, so I'd enjoy experimenting with knotwork on my head.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I could have her hair. But my clients are too posh. xD
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think i'm going to slip this in here, rather than the general news thread, because of some of the conclusions. the guttmacher institute reports a reduction in rates of abortions in the U.S. which they attribute to the increased use of "nearly foolproof long-term contraceptives" (and also maybe a bit to the recession). their results were from the period before a lot of states started passing laws restricting or impeding access to abortions - so it's not because the anti-abortion stuff has stopped anyone (although that's not what the anti-abortion people say, of course). what it seems to show is that a) if you let women have reliable control of when they want to get pregnant, they don't have unwanted pregnancies; and 2) expanding availability of health insurance that covers contraception will probably further reduce unwanted pregnancies, especially among poorer women.

yeah, i know - big 'duh!', but we will see if it has any impact on the political discussion. well, ok, of course it won't have any impact, but one keeps hoping that if these little bricks of facts keep piling up, eventually _someone_ will build something out of them.
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Jinx



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
So I was reading a think on cracked, and it said that people used to believe Asians had sideways vaginas... like the vulva is oriented horizontally... and then it said if you google it you can find people who still believe it and oh my god you fucking can.

Jesus Christ.




I need to become a sex ed teacher again just so I don't feel like gouging my own eyeballs out every time I think about how poorly informed kids are.


I heard this kind of thing when I was growing up. At some point it made me wonder how that would work for mixed race Asian girls.

Would they wind up at some sort of diagonal, and which way? Would that be determined by whether it was the mother or father who was Asian?

Or would it be like eye color, and would vertical or horizontal vulvas be dominant?

I'm often amazed at the ignorantly racist things that people believe.
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