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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
I do not get TERFs. I tried to wrap my head around them but I can't. Like they want equality but they don't want equality for trans* persons? How the fuck is that possible, how can you claim to fight for equality and then deny equality to a group? Doesn't that instantly make you a big fucking hypocrite out there?

It's Animal Farm all over again.

Honestly I don't even consider them the slightest bit feminist. Someone who fights for equality for all should do it for everyone. Anyone who closes the doors for other people isn't qualified to carry the title feminist.


Because their view is that non-cis females are actually just guys, and are trying to co-opt feminism because.. I don't know. But they feel they are "Male Invaders" and not actually *women*. And any attempt to explain this to them is brushed off as "mansplaining", it appears.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think being angry is a good start, Felgraf. It's good not to have to deal with this shit without other people being supportive. I personally don't know what the hell to say on that hashtag, so I'm just retweeting stuff.

They also fear some kind of soviet-esque talent dump woth trans men. They worry that a lot of women are opting for an 'easier' life by transitioning.

There is this stupid notion that trans people are damaged, and that is why we are the way we are. The exact same argument is made to say that all gay people were molested or otherwise abused. In which case, if that is someone's real belief, why attack people whom you think are victims? It makes no sense, unless you hate survivors of sexual assault.

There is also this disconnect where they don't quite explain what trans women are supposed to be receiving by transitioning. They seem to have missed the part where trans women receive inordinate amounts of violence and prejudice.

Then there is the theory that trans men are all autistic women. Which again, if that's your theory, why the hell yell at these people whom you feel are damaged in some way? It doesn't make any kind of sense.


Thank goodness there are growing numbers of inclusive feminists who are also committed to ending racist bullshit.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blatant transphobia.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, that's horrible all around.

I never know what to do when people use feminism as an excuse to be hateful to other marginalized groups, other than refuse to support them in any way shape or form because that is just not how you feminism and I cannot budge on that point.

My feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit. Dunno who said that first but it is important.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard. I am deciding not to say they aren't feminists, because regarding groups from other ideologies (Like PETA and the Westboro Baptist Church,) it is really annoying to hear people say those groups aren't actually related to the larger one. I'm thinking right now that it's important to remember they actually are related (if only distantly.)

I get where they are coming from, and that they only want to do good things. But it's such bullshit, would like a more useful way to help them understand that.


On the plus side, there are some aweosme people doing terfmonday, including a trans biologist who has been in their field for ten years. And then there was someone who actually came to understand why something was problematic. wooh!
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



"Trans Feminist Bingo"

Courtesy of GenderTrender, a popular TERF website.

Slightly boggled by how popular the site is, too.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swerf?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swerf's up!
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sexual dimorphism is a social construct."

All of my wut?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/women-are-gamers-but-largely-absent-from-e-sports/

Quote:
WellPlayed conducted its survey during three tournaments over the course of the year, two with League of Legends and one with StarCraft 2. Of the participants, 2,040 were male, 69 were female, and 33 identified as "other."
...
Meanwhile, in the larger gaming community, 45 percent of people playing games are female, though only four percent of video game protagonists in the 25 best-sellers of 2013 were female.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/women-are-gamers-but-largely-absent-from-e-sports/

Quote:
WellPlayed conducted its survey during three tournaments over the course of the year, two with League of Legends and one with StarCraft 2. Of the participants, 2,040 were male, 69 were female, and 33 identified as "other."
...
Meanwhile, in the larger gaming community, 45 percent of people playing games are female, though only four percent of video game protagonists in the 25 best-sellers of 2013 were female.

This is going to take quite a while to change. There's all kinds of reasons why it is the way it is, and I'm not saying that they are all valid reasons, but mostly it's history, and here's where the fight really begins. Almost all current works, regardless of medium, are based upon references of the past, which is pretty much mostly patriarchally focussed e.g. a realistic military based game set in modern times is almost certain to have male lead. To put it another way, games are a reflection of society, so if games are shitty and sexist, well I'm saying that the majority of society is still that way. I mean I like Gina Davis' idea, but it's almost akin to having token minority characters; it's about maintaining willing suspension of disbelief, and enough people aren't ready to believe that 50% of plumbers are women.

Movie studios produce media in an absurdly cold and calculated fashion mainly based upon established properties (Heard of the wizard of Oz CGI? Spiderman reboot? Lego movies? Superman reboot?) and games are following them as the example.

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2013/Global/

You can't just say, x% of gamers are women, so let's make x% of leads women, although it would be great if we could. First we need to overcome the bullshit. I would first look at the games that can be easily changed, like Pokemon, The Last of Us, Assassin's Creed, GTA-- none of these NEED to be male leads or only male leads.

Anywho I'm not trying to argue against having more females leads, just trying to identify what needs to be overcome in order to have more female leads; you need to examine a disease before you try to cure it.

**EDIT: Does anyone know where to find statistics on the number of female leads in classic literature? Novels in general? How does that compare to other mediums?
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
swerf?

Sex Worker Exclusive RadFem, apparently.

I see there is a need for Qwerf too, since apparently only lesbians are real women and other queer women don't count. (And you can only be a lesbian if you follow certain rules.)
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize that the article is about the lack of women in esports and not the lack of female leads, yes?

Also: while I recognize that women are a pitifully small portion of pro players (because every shithead trogolodyte seems to make it his personal mission to tear down any woman who might be better at the game than them), I really don't buy into the idea that they are such a small portion of the fanbase for League specifically.

Unless Riot has been cherry picking who they allow to buy tickets to their LCS games.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a more lighthearted note, the only time I'm tempted to yell "misandry!" is when I'm online shopping on a site and find that there isn't a proper men/boys section. Still, not like there's any real shortage of clothes for any gender on the internet.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc Tempest wrote:
You realize that the article is about the lack of women in esports and not the lack of female leads, yes?

Also: while I recognize that women are a pitifully small portion of pro players (because every shithead trogolodyte seems to make it his personal mission to tear down any woman who might be better at the game than them), I really don't buy into the idea that they are such a small portion of the fanbase for League specifically.

Unless Riot has been cherry picking who they allow to buy tickets to their LCS games.

I'm not saying the e-sport thing isn't important, but I do think it's secondary and effects a smaller portion of the gaming community as a whole. Also, it's a different set of issues, closely related, different enough. Probably someone like Sam, with all his Psych and Soci smarts, could explain it far better than I could.
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