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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 4946
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just seemed a bit silly to me to quote an article and then write several paragraphs completely unrelated said article.

/shrug
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Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
You can't just say, x% of gamers are women, so let's make x% of leads women, although it would be great if we could. First we need to overcome the bullshit. I would first look at the games that can be easily changed, like Pokemon, The Last of Us, Assassin's Creed, GTA-- none of these NEED to be male leads or only male leads.


Are you talking about the game or the anime here? Because I'm pretty sure you could be a girl in every pokemon game that wasn't a spin-off since Crystal which was released way back in 2000. Most of the side games let you pick a male or female character as well.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2896
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darq still has a point though. In a lot of games where you don't customize your protagonist, developers opt for a white male.

I remember in the earlier stages of Divinity Original Sin people asked if you could customize the two characters you saw on the front image of the game. Some commenters were too eager to rush in that they HAD to be a guy and a girl or the narrative wouldn't fit. Now I've played the game in pre-alpha and nothing - absolutely nothing - requires for the main characters to be a guy and a girl.

You can now customize like any other RPG which is great. Larian Studios wins one internet.
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Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't disputing his point over the other games, I was just wondering why he picked Pokemon when the game consistently has let you choose to be a girl for the last 13 years and therefore doesn't really match the rest of the list.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3661
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If games were literally crafted to suit people at an individual level, everyone would hate it.

As it is right now, you either relate to the main character and the quests that the main character goes through or you don't.

For example, the MC for cavestory is a god damn robot, yet you still relate to the thing, and you don't customize it whatsoever, yet your choices still determine the outcome.


There is no such thing as guaranteed income in the game development field.

Last time I checked, it is a field completely dominated by giant companies, so all we have left to talk about is Indie game developers who are essentially risk-taking individuals and starving artists.

Which gender is more likely to take stupid risks?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:

As it is right now, you either relate to the main character and the quests that the main character goes through or you don't.

For example, the MC for Cave Derpy is a god damn pegasus ...


ftfy

but you actually aren't limited to playing as a bubbly pegasus

you can choose to play as a pants-obsessed unicorn or a drunkard earth pony instead
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HR, I'm going to have to disagree with you, because Cave Story is one of the best games ever, it's completely amazing, I literally almost cried at one point, and what were we talking about again.


Right. Thy -- that's a bad example, though, because Quote specifically isn't standing in for the player. He has his own personality and backstory, which fits into the backstory of the world as a whole. While yes, I think I would have appreciated it if I were able to choose gender, it doesn't matter that much in Cave Story, because Quote is a characer. You're not supposed to feel that Quote is you.

Also, there is no evidence to suggest that people hate games where you can customize yourself, and literally whole economies based around that fact that people like being individual.

(Also, your argument, "You don't need to make the characters relate-able because either you relate to them or you don't, and as evidence here is a game where they didn't make an explicit effort to make them relate-able", literally doesn't make sense as an argument.)

And y'know what? I wasn't going to touch your last comment, but since I'm on a roll I'm just gonna mention that amoung the games I've played which let you choose gender, there was even one that let you choose whether you were cis or trans. (With less than preferable wording, but that's beside the point). And that's not mentioning the whole subgenre of modern indie games that is actually (unrelated to the genre itself, before you say anything), dominated by queer creators, and especially AMAB trans creators.

Too long; didn't read: HR -- please don't insult Cave Story, because it's one of the most amazing-est games. Thy -- you are wrong on basically every level short of grammar and syntax.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant precisely what I said, and yet I don't see how I insulted the game. I think that it's a fantastic game.

I just prefer to play it as Derpy.



waaaaaaait, I'm going to guess you thought that because some people use "derpy" disparagingly, don't they
dangit
people
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:58 am; edited 4 times in total
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh-my-gosh.
I'm so sorry. I didn't know.
That's wonderful.
(And I'm not even in the MLP fandom.)
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6630

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one of my favorite part of games ever is getting to design my own characters. I usually test character design systems by trying to see how close to actually looking like me I can get them (no joke, I have reference pictures on my phone to compare to because reasons.) And then expand into what's the craziest cool thing I can make (Andorians are a favorite to attempt but sometimes you gotta let the game guide you.)

In related news, I'm so excited for Sims4 it hurts.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3661
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:

As it is right now, you either relate to the main character and the quests that the main character goes through or you don't.

For example, the MC for Cave Derpy is a god damn pegasus ...


ftfy

but you actually aren't limited to playing as a bubbly pegasus

you can choose to play as a pants-obsessed unicorn or a drunkard earth pony instead


Are we talking about games or mods here people?
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Are we talking about games or mods here people?


We're talking games as a whole, including independent efforts -- which actually does include mods.
That said, HR's comment was also very obviously sarcastic.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3661
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
Also, there is no evidence to suggest that people hate games where you can customize yourself, and literally whole economies based around that fact that people like being individual.


I'm not presenting evidence, I'm presenting an opinion. Mine.


Here's a question for you: Have you ever played a game that someone has specifically created entirely for you?

AKA it's based on your life, your personality, your various skillsets, etc.



More likely than not, you'll find the game boring.

Why?

Because people seek novel concepts to define themselves with.


You don't listen to the same song over and over again for an eternity.


And it is never wrong to ask a question.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Thy, you stated as a fact:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
If games were literally crafted to suit people at an individual level, everyone would hate it.

Which I am disproving, by pointing out the complete absence of evidence.

Also, here's a question for you, in response:
How many D&D characters have I made?
In fact, I'll make it easier: What is the gorram order of magnitude of the number of D&D characters I've made?

And yes, some of them have been based pretty exactly on me. Others have been me, but with one or two notable differences -- you know, playing around with personality and stuff. Others have been completely different. All of them, by providing that flexibility, led to a much richer experience.
(And yes, I have done similar things in other games, too. But D&D is the only one I can say "guess the order of magnitude" about, and I liked that phrase too much to think of a more exact-to-what-you-might-have-been-thinking example.)

... And is that last comment responding to my answering your "never wrongly asked"* question? Like, what's that comment doing there? Saying that my answer wasn't necessary?

* an idea which, by the way, I do despise, because it ignores the rhetorical uses of questions and requires a deliberately limited understanding of the wonderful variety provided by English (and probably other languages, too, but I'm not fluent in any others) grammar and usage.


Last edited by Moor on Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12370
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't expect an honest argument out of Thy, he's a pathological dissembler.
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