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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is currently sunrise in the middle east

Good morning, Iran.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning, Eastern Europe.
Good morning, Madagascar.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning, Libya.
Good morning, Rome.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning, Nigeria.
Good morning, Ireland.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Sam wrote:
as my posts are supposedly invisible to thy imma put my money on that you don't get a clear answer to that question and he goes off on some weird moral tangent you have to really work hard to connect to anything here


he went the HxH route, which was something I considered specifically stipulating against, but someone who goes the HxH route will choose that no matter what you say and refuse to even consider the actual options because thinking about that stuff is painful for them



I don't know what's funnier, that you are calling it the HxH route, while being completely ignorant of the actual name of the choice, or the fact that you are quoting sam, who is predictably obsessed with every word that I say, even though I can't even see his posts.


What a quandary.




PS: False dilemmas don't actually demonstrate anything, you can take that shit back to your philosophy 101 class anytime.




PPS:
Quote:
Last edited by Heretical Rants on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:54 pm; edited 4 times in total

devastation has occurred, approaching liftoff in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2..




PPPS: What Sam actually believes
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:

You cannot have this continuum you are talking about.


hey Thy

would it be better to save a googolplex people from being administered a shock of 1mA for 0.1 seconds, barely enough to be felt, or to save one person from being outright tortured for fifty years?

Whilst considering the former, keep in mind that no matter how small the disutility of such a shock is on the individual scale, it's being multiplied by 10^10^100.

And if in the situation above it's better to save the one torturee, then if you gradually increase the amount of suffering that is to be inflicted on the googolplex people, then is there some discrete point where it becomes definitively better to save the googolplex than to save the one?


Clearly you're an idiot if you can't save em all.
gg
QED


Moral quandary just got BLOWN THE FUCK OUT.


Try to think outside the box sometime and not follow the rules so much, kk.

PS: read up on your Godel.

... Okay, so I'm gonna snap at this, sorry people.
(a) If you're going to interpret this as a complete and literal hypothetical simulation, why don't you just complain about how 1 googol people are 10^77 times larger than Earth, and so couldn't possibly participate in this without collapsing into a black hole or something.

But that's really not why I'm replying to this so much as (b):
What in the world do you mean by read up on your Godel? Do the fundementals of mathematical logic and axiom systems have anything at all to do with the current situation?
And that, like, isn't a rhetorical question or anything. I'm genuinely curious why you brought him up.



The number isn't the real problem here, the number can be changed to whatever sounds reasonable, still won't make a difference.


Having the audacity to create a false dilemma simply for the purpose of enabling moral ambivalence is the real problem.



There was a company that tried to calculate the dollar price of a human life in one of their memos some time ago. I believe it was Ford.

As you can probably guess, this is a big no-no.


This is what the dilemma forces people to do, and if you aren't an idiot you will realize that you DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.




But you were wondering bout Godel, right?

Quote:
In the scientific world there are Gödel numberings, Gödel programming languages, Gödel societies that hold colloquia; there are explications and simplifications by the hundreds of the famous Gödel theorems. More popularly, there are speculations on the implications of Gödel's theorems for art, music, the mind-body problem, on whether cognition can be computational, on the limitations of human intelligence, on immortality, the existence of God --- you name it.



Do you not get that Bertrand Russell would spin in his grave knowing that you suggested that:

Quote:
Do the fundementals of mathematical logic and axiom systems have anything at all to do with the current situation?



Ok, lets do baby steps.

Do you not understand that you are dealing with a logical statement here?

Simple question.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't a false dilemma. Everyone only has a finite number of resources and it is inefficient to focus on all of the problems at once. We are currently in a very real situation where we can't save them all.

"Style or substance" would be an actual example of a false dilemma.


Also, I never said that you couldn't answer outside of the box. Quite the opposite. I just said that your instant dismissal was disappointing. By all means, challenge the premises!

But anyway, you've now given an actual answer of sorts! Congratulations! The things you've said are now somewhat relevant to the original discussion!


Of course, you're still horribly, horribly wrong. It was never about moral ambivalence. It was about the prevalence of sexism and the varying degrees to which it manifests.

Ironically enough, the original author thought that all degrees of sexism deserved being addressed. By saying that we should save them all, you're actually agreeing with him.


wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and this

Thy Brilliance wrote:


PPS:
Quote:
Last edited by Heretical Rants on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:54 pm; edited 4 times in total

devastation has occurred, approaching liftoff in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2..



This isn't really worth addressing, since it isn't relevant to, well, anything at all, buuuut

I do edit posts a lot, because I often post before I'm actually finished writing. If you refresh the page while I am making a post, you will often be able to observe the post getting longer and longer.


In this particular case, two of those edits were me removing things that I had added because I decided that they worked better in a new post, since other people had posted before I added them.

I'm not sure why you take this as a sign that "devastation has occurred".


Quote:
There was a company that tried to calculate the dollar price of a human life in one of their memos some time ago. I believe it was Ford.

As you can probably guess, this is a big no-no.


and yet, it is essential for managing funds for safety features

I'm not surprised that a car company would calculate that, since is vital to the industry. Customers are only willing to pay so much for ever-diminishing returns on increased safety.
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moor



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
But you were wondering bout Godel, right?

Quote:
In the scientific world there are Gödel numberings, Gödel programming languages, Gödel societies that hold colloquia; there are explications and simplifications by the hundreds of the famous Gödel theorems. More popularly, there are speculations on the implications of Gödel's theorems for art, music, the mind-body problem, on whether cognition can be computational, on the limitations of human intelligence, on immortality, the existence of God --- you name it.

Unless I'm missing a more explicit connection to the current, you're just saying "Godel is a pretty popular and influential guy" here. But I might have missed something?..

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Do you not get that Bertrand Russell would spin in his grave knowing that you suggested that:

Quote:
Do the fundementals of mathematical logic and axiom systems have anything at all to do with the current situation?

Ok, lets do baby steps.

Do you not understand that you are dealing with a logical statement here?
Simple question.

(First of all, as a matter of religious principal, I believe that Bertrand Russell is not in any grave but instead that his ashes orbit the sun in a teapot between Earth and Mars. But that's neither here nor there.)

... What logical statement are we dealing with here? And I don't mean that dismissively. I just can't keep a good, complete map of conversations in the best of times, and jumping to and from this one by the nature of the medium... Could you quote which statement you were referring to? (Sorry.)

But whatever the statement, just because we're dealing with a logical statement, that doesn't in-and-of-itself mean we should go down to basic axioms. Like, if I was doing a problem in calculus, I wouldn't start with the Peano Axioms + Definitions and go from there... (That said, one of my friends once joked about doing that that -- he was allowed an index card of formulas for the test, so those were what he took.)
That said, I don't know what specific statement you're referring to is, so maybe it is helpful to go down to the basics. If it is ignore this part.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty useless notecard. Your friend should have the Peano axioms memorized anyway, but they certainly wouldn't be very useful on the average calculus exam.

I'd say bring some relevant high-level result, but that would be useless too, since the process of writing it out and understanding it would make it such that one could recreate it if necessary, especially if it was only one notecard worth of material. It's too small of a reference to be useful.

I never brought any notes to that kind of test, unless it was going to involve somewhat arbitrary constants that I didn't have time to recalculate, or something like that.

It is a decent enough gag, though. Hopefully whoever supervised the exam was amused.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha, y'all were warned
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
hahaha, y'all were warned



I regret nothiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing *falls off of cliff*
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Sam



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will reiterate that i definitely still find it a morbidly amazing fascination and i can still comment fluently because he claims to have blocked me, but please remember we're still talking about a dude with ... uh, difficulties. that we need to at least be a bit sensitive of. i mean it when i say he is not in a good place re: his interactions here.

then again he does bait people obviously and stuff so nobody here should be expected to put up with it for his sake. its just a nice idea.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one's going to bring up the fact that we calculate the dollar value of a human life all the time? Like insurance companies and pretty much every government agency. But that's just me citing sources again. Smile
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and different charities cost different amounts per life saved
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