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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2014/01/chris_kallal_identity_thief_charged_with_theft_by_swindle_after_working_at_mall_of_america.php
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2014/01/chris_kallal_identity_thief_charged_with_theft_by_swindle_after_working_at_mall_of_america.php


A) This still doesn't match up because Kallal covertly stole his girlfriend's identity in the first case. He didn't say "Hey, let me use your credentials for a bit and I'll sleep with you!"
The second offense doesn't seem strongly connected to sexual favors in exchange for benefits more than a kind of meatspace phishing scam, where a guy passes himself off as something he's not to get money out of someone else.
Quote:
"He's a well-spoken young man and obviously he was convincing," says Cardenas. "He knows the right things to say and who to say them to, and they took his word. He preyed on their trust."

For all we know, even his then-current GF didn't know he was a fraud. Maybe you mean to make the argument that this turned into nepotism because she was working for the mall and convinced them to commission Kallal as a security consultant because they were going together, but that's still not the same thing. There doesn't seem to be a "you get me this job and I'll sleep with you" vibe.
B) Oh yeah, and the internet totally blew up over Kallal's sexual shenanigans! Rolling Eyes I mean, who the fuck is this guy? I had no idea he existed and nobody was making a big stink about it when these things happened.

The issue here has more to it than "someone did something wrong related to/while having sex." I mean, what the fuck? Some of the examples you picked are just people who were scandalized for having affairs totally unrelated to their jobs at all, or for being TEH GAY. Now the best example you can find of people reacting the same way as they did with Quinn is an obscure case that doesn't even work the same way?
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well frankly Wheels, it's pretty abundantly obvious that your take on the matter is its different because power dynamics.

My take is sexual misconduct in the workplace is sexual misconduct in the workplace. Fucking your boss is unethical, fucking people positioned to give your product good reviews is unethical.

Why don't you instead try to come up with an argument as to why this situation is ok.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. I'm not defending Zoe but I'm not attacking her either. I didn't realize asking questions made me a defender.

2. I don't see IMGUR pictures given by an ex-boyfriend as a reliable source. NONE OF THIS IS PROVEN. Seriously, does anyone have a different source? If I get another messily edited together screenshot clusterfuck I'm just going to spam happy songs.

Here's a reply from Patrick Klepek, one of the people whom Zoe allegedly slept with:
http://patrickklepek.tumblr.com/post/95293807754/im-sure-youve-been-asked-already-but-how-do-you-feel

I do know that the way Zoe has been handling this is pretty bad. And hey, maybe it's because she did do partially the things she's accused of (christ, internet court). Shitty people are everywhere. But right now people are acting like she massacred a nation. And whenever that happens, I'm way less likely to believe the hate.

And I am still 100% against putting up real life information of anyone online. I don't care how people justify it. There's no justice in internet vigilantism. And yet putting up IRL info is what people are striving to do because they know that's the only way to hurt someone over the internet. It's literally their only weapon and at the same time the most dangerous. They should never get an excuse to wield it.

If there are women who turn against feminism over this, then they didn't really know much about feminism in the first place. One person does not make the movement. I actually stand with the MRAs on this when they got pointed at in that mass murder fiasco earlier on.
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Last edited by Yinello on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:08 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One last thing: If Zoe did do it all, doctor up all the scams and whatnot... We're just making her bigger. We're just giving her more. If she's as bad as Tumblrites claim, the best thing we can do is be quiet about it. But trying to be quiet is the internet's biggest flaw. They just can't.

Also for fucks sake, we are again talking only about Zoe when the bigger problem is journalism corruption. This is what's so wrong with this fucking topic.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Well frankly Wheels, it's pretty abundantly obvious that your take on the matter is its different because power dynamics.

My take is sexual misconduct in the workplace is sexual misconduct in the workplace. Fucking your boss is unethical, fucking people positioned to give your product good reviews is unethical.

Why don't you instead try to come up with an argument as to why this situation is ok.

You see me arguing that this is okay anywhere? No? Okay then. Try reading along next time.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm soooo tired of this topic that I'm going to try and derail it with the movie Lucy.

Personally I like it a lot. It was very entertaining. I do think it had some flaws. This review I agree with so I felt like sharing.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually not, im actually talking about workplace ethics, and people are talking about Zoe because it's the fucking ah-ha gotcha moment.

Deflecting it to pretend it's about slut shaming or whatever is bullshit. She was a big prominent feminist in the online feminist movement behaving both hypocritically (given the manipulation of her ex) and unethically (Given fucking around with people poised to advance her career).

More to the point: if talking about her is giving her what she wants, why are she and her defenders going to he lengths they are to stop people from doing so? Is it because being big and famous for having unethical workplace relations really fucks your future and the future of the company you work for? Yeah probably, its called consequences for unethical actions, welcome to the digital age.

And if you think he's doctoring the screenshots you should probably watch the video he put up, showing him taking the screenshots to address that very concern.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Well frankly Wheels, it's pretty abundantly obvious that your take on the matter is its different because power dynamics.

My take is sexual misconduct in the workplace is sexual misconduct in the workplace. Fucking your boss is unethical, fucking people positioned to give your product good reviews is unethical.

Why don't you instead try to come up with an argument as to why this situation is ok.

You see me arguing that this is okay anywhere? No? Okay then. Try reading along next time.


Try contributing something substantial instead of just being contrarian and maybe your posts will be worth reading along.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, that's not how this works. If you aren't going to pay attention, don't post.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Sorry, that's not how this works. If you aren't going to pay attention, don't post.


Please, does that work on anyone? Shitpost someone else wheels, I've been watching you work for nigh on a decade now, I know exactly how you function.

Find a nit to pick, and pick at it ruthlessly.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
One person does not make the movement.


i know absolutely nothing about this woman or this scandal, but this, to me, is the important point. it's not right to trash an entire movement for the failures of one individual who identifies with that movement.

i'm also with monkey - workplace fucking is wrong, whether you are in a position of power using that power to force others to fuck you, or whether you are fucking others in hopes of forcing them to use their power to help you. it's manipulating people in a particularly personal way for your own ends, and it's wrong, and people have no cause for complaint if they do it and then get outed for it.

i will take note of wheels' comments though - i guess we will know that women have achieved real equality when a female president is impeached for canoodling with an intern.

....not quite the standard i was thinking about when I was pulling for the ERA, but i guess you take what you can get.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Yinello wrote:
One person does not make the movement.


i know absolutely nothing about this woman or this scandal, but this, to me, is the important point. it's not right to trash an entire movement for the failures of one individual who identifies with that movement.

i'm also with monkey - workplace fucking is wrong, whether you are in a position of power using that power to force others to fuck you, or whether you are fucking others in hopes of forcing them to use their power to help you. it's manipulating people in a particularly personal way for your own ends, and it's wrong, and people have no cause for complaint if they do it and then get outed for it.

i will take note of wheels' comments though - i guess we will know that women have achieved real equality when a female president is impeached for canoodling with an intern.

....not quite the standard i was thinking about when I was pulling for the ERA, but i guess you take what you can get.


And here's the problem, it isn't just one person. I don't know what else to call it other than Internet-era Feminism. It's self defeating and toxic and you can see how it works by the number of women completely unaware of why that whole #womenagainstfeminism thing started. They just continue to repeat over and over how they need to educate themselves on what feminism is, quoting a dictionary definition of it, while completely failing to see how it's the actions and words of people wearing the label that pushed them away from the movement.

Things like this and the comments that come after
http://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have

I hear mocking people who've actually listed out a bunch of grievances totally makes the case for your movement and doesn't at all reiterate why people are moving to terms like egalitarian so as not to associate with feminism

Here's a prominent modern feminist website explaining why it's ok to be a douche to people for things outside their control because patriarchy

And of course, the fact that I've spent several posts now pointing out that the things I do that get laughs and kudos, other people get called out on because it's apparently funny when I do it (Direct it at the right targets).

Spend some time on tumblr, on jezebel, on feministing. Enjoy what would be termed creepshots if it happened to women here http://movethefuckoverbro.tumblr.com/

And please please please realize that the people doing this shit are basically the future of the movement, I don't draw the tea party comparison lightly.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Sorry, that's not how this works. If you aren't going to pay attention, don't post.


Please, does that work on anyone? Shitpost someone else wheels, I've been watching you work for nigh on a decade now, I know exactly how you function.

Find a nit to pick, and pick at it ruthlessly.

If you tell me it's not sexism because we react the same way to a man in the same situation, but can't provide a single example of any such situation or the subsequent reaction, what does that tell us?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Sorry, that's not how this works. If you aren't going to pay attention, don't post.


Please, does that work on anyone? Shitpost someone else wheels, I've been watching you work for nigh on a decade now, I know exactly how you function.

Find a nit to pick, and pick at it ruthlessly.

If you tell me it's not sexism because we react the same way to a man in the same situation, but can't provide a single example of any such situation or the subsequent reaction, what does that tell us?


Not going to engage you until you bring more than nitpicking to a discussion Wheels.
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