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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 4904
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I laughed.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I laughed at the flowchart, too.

Also, this is happening I guess. I think it'd be more funny if it wasn't kind of horrifying.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick overview of the recent Sarkeesian and Quinn shitfests. Without the rampant speculation and rumor-mongering.

This is also why I chose not to comment on any of the accusations against Quinn at the time, I had to wait for things to settle out and the shit to separate from the facts.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10567
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Just a quick overview of the recent Sarkeesian and Quinn shitfests. Without the rampant speculation and rumor-mongering.

This is also why I chose not to comment on any of the accusations against Quinn at the time, I had to wait for things to settle out and the shit to separate from the facts.

Good article until it got to the part where it tries to say that Sarkeesian doesn't cherry pick.

Anita is a rock star; just because you sell the most albums doesn't mean you'll win the grammy.

I would wonder if she was raised by helicopter parents, but her tactics and purposeful methods of dodging criticism ( i mean real criticisms, not the hate bullshit) lead me to believe that her actions are very well planned out. She is shrewd and ruthless in ways that are absolutely beneficial in business, doubly so in the entertainment industry, and she makes tons of good points and has really helped educate a lot of people and bring issues to light, but I think in the end it takes away from lasting legitimacy on her part.

tl;dr I think Sarkeesian could do what she does better and with more earnest concern for other. In the end I think she's only concerned with herself and promoting herself, being an activist happened to be the niche she choose for success.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have some examples of this actual criticism? I vaguely remember hearing something awhile back.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 822
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Is it just me or is 'gaslighting' the new word du jour

I watched the movie it was named after a few days ago, it was actually very good. It was like a textbook case of emotional abuse and, well, gaslighting Rolling Eyes

I haven't noticed the word "gaslighting" that much more than usual recently though.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sarkeesian's videos are high quality and they exhaustively lay out a fairly decent and comprehensive case that does effectively implore care and caution with problematic tropes in video games which — to be perfectly realistic — thoroughly saturate the medium.

the backlash against sarkeesian has been utterly atrocious. the sheer volume of hatespeech against her and the tireless refrain of poor arguments against her probably make it difficult to have any opportunity to approach substantive dialogue about her videos, wherever they exist.

I have my own criticisms of the videos but they are by and large the most valuable current resource pertaining to systemic and damaging imagery in games from a perspective of anti-sexist concern.

And no, she does not "cherrypick."
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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoe quinn really is a dbag though so i have no desire to back any horse in that clusterfuck
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
sarkeesian's videos are high quality and they exhaustively lay out a fairly decent and comprehensive case that does effectively implore care and caution with problematic tropes in video games which — to be perfectly realistic — thoroughly saturate the medium.

the backlash against sarkeesian has been utterly atrocious. the sheer volume of hatespeech against her and the tireless refrain of poor arguments against her probably make it difficult to have any opportunity to approach substantive dialogue about her videos, wherever they exist.

I have my own criticisms of the videos but they are by and large the most valuable current resource pertaining to systemic and damaging imagery in games from a perspective of anti-sexist concern.

And no, she does not "cherrypick."


I have heard some accusations that Sakreesian lifted gameplay videos from other people (or even game trailers) to pass off as her own during the videos-is there any substance to this claim? (Even if so, mind, that doesn't really change that A) She is bringing up important topics, and B) People are reacting in an...insane fashion for her daring to suggest there's a misogyny issue).

I would not be surprised if this claim is spurious.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait... why does anyone care where the video game shots came from? "Your point is invalid because you used a video that depicts what you say it depicts but was not made by you" would be a mind-numbingly dumb argument. Is there some subtext to her using a video produced by someone else that I should know?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Wait... why does anyone care where the video game shots came from? "Your point is invalid because you used a video that depicts what you say it depicts but was not made by you" would be a mind-numbingly dumb argument. Is there some subtext to her using a video produced by someone else that I should know?


I *THINK* the argument is "She has implied these are videos of gameplay footage from when she was playing" (Ala, say, a "Let's Play", but with a feminist dissection of the game instead of.. well. Boatmurdered, etc.). Or possibly that she is simply using other people's footage without attributing who took the footage? (Which I guess is a grey area?) I have heard this accusation second hand (from a person who had the opinion/criticism of 'Some of the things in her videos are questionable. However, the insanity and rabidness of her detractors FAR outweigh it'), so I am not entirely sure. I don't think it was so much a "Negates her argument" thing, but more of a "Was dishonest and not something she should have done, however she still has ver legitimate arguments and greivances" thing.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i kind of doubt its much more than inane tempestmongering in as many teapots as possible. she's been very professional so far with fair use

she did accidentally use fan art that they thought was legit promotional once and did this in response:

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/79882515581/recently-it-came-to-our-attention-that-we-had
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
yeah i kind of doubt its much more than inane tempestmongering in as many teapots as possible. she's been very professional so far with fair use

she did accidentally use fan art that they thought was legit promotional once and did this in response:

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/79882515581/recently-it-came-to-our-attention-that-we-had


Thank you for clearing that up for me! I admit I was kind of hesitant to try and dig up the original criticism, because I suspect that would require wading through a massive morass of misogyny (Wow that was actually unintentional alliteration).
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Do you have some examples of this actual criticism? I vaguely remember hearing something awhile back.


There somewhere else in the forums, I'm not ambitious enough to look for them. Off the top of my head though, I remember having a lot of issues with her video on The Hunger Games.

And I suppose cherry picking might not be quite the right term, but there's a few times when she uses weak examples that stretch to support her point where she could have used better ones, or focuses on relatively minute negative details out of context to the point where their intended and/or original meaning is either missed, glossed over, or outright disregarded.

To me, it seems like Sarkeesian seems less concerned with making the strongest, best arguments possible, and seems more focused on framing her arguments to minimize criticism and refutation (I mean the legit stuff, not the asshat threats and shit). Mind you, in many ways this isn't a bad strategy and it does make a lot of sense, but to me, the manner in which she acts seems to indicate that she can indeed see her flaws, and I think she should figure out how to address those without sidestepping them or outright ignoring criticism.

Her grasp on culture, historical and current, seems strong, as well as her knowledge of feminism and video games. Anita's grasp on narrative structure . . . it's kinda weak in comparison.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do get the ambition to look for actual examples, I'd like to see them, because right now it's just you pointing to non-specific claims.

I'm also not wanting to search for anything relating to her because of the screed everywhere.
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