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What Is Porn
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leutchi



Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 125
Location: Goldenrod City

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My question - how long can Squig keep a straight face while doing this?

...I can't remember how long it took him to get to show his true colours as being into "hard core military action" as Piglin, when he was playing 'Nique as being all new age (Can't find that strip anywhere, but I swear it exists)...

Squig, can't you remember this?

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Delakando



Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porn to me encourages sexual exploration and evolution. Without it your normal sex life can be exceptionally boring. The Kama Sutra is considered a learning experience but to others its nothing more then smut.

Why feminist find it demeaning is that they feel it objectifies women. That may be true but what lured them into the business? Women in need of money? Encourage skills that could give them good jobs. Women have equal rights and are treated as people unlike the centuries when women were treated as objects to be bought and sold like slaves. If they do not like their job then they quit and find other work.

My question to feminist - Why do they attack former strippers or porn stars? They stand up and actively protest these people from getting jobs or working in any place other then those careers. Does it make sense the former stripper news anchor was fired for her past career? How about the porn star who wanted to become a teacher? These people had dreams that were shattered. Feminist should stand up and encourage them to seek out their dream jobs and get out of the adult entertainment industry.
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Estranged



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do feminists ask what people in the porn industry think? Do they care how many of them support their ideology?

Quote:
They say, "porn objectifies women!" as though that's some kind of end-all analysis. I address this topic from two directions.

Firstly, as a porn model and cam girl, it's my job description to "be a sex object", (as the anti-sexers would define it), and it's a job with which I'm very happy. My friendlier customers treat me like a multi-dimensional person, too- but it's not required of them, and I don't resent the ones who don't try and get to know me. (Hell, I know it annoys me when I, as a customer, get an overly chatty waiter or cab driver who tries to impose socializing on me when I'm not feeling up to it.) On cam, my customers pay $4 a minute for the expressed purpose of not having to wine and dine me and pretend to care what I'm saying in order to get me to take off my clothes. It's so much more honest than dating.

I have never met a sex worker who was unaware of that their job entailed before taking it. When asked why she got started, not one replied, "I became a stripper because I was looking for the true love of an intellectual partner who appreciates my inner beauty and doesn't oggle my body." Those types of people answer romance ads on eHarmony.com, not ads in weekly papers for "B/G anal scene $500 cash". It's not as though this whole thing is sprung upon random unsuspecting victims- it's the definition of the work.

"Being objectified" by customers is not something that sex workers themselves are railing against as an injustice they seek to overcome. It's a half-baked analysis being imposed upon our work from outsiders- outsiders who presume to tell the world what we experience and how we feel about it, without ever having asked us. That, in and of itself, should tell you a lot about whether or not it's a real problem.

(Sex workers do, however, regularly rail against being objectified by the media, anti-porn crusaders, anti-sex feminists, clueless academics, women, and others. We work as consensually "objectified" people who are and paid for our work, but we hate being nonconsensually objectified by outsiders who neither pay us nor respect us, and use/abuse us to suit their own agendas and make a profit.)

Secondly, everyone at their job is "objectified" in their roles. I don't profoundly care for the cashier at the grocery store, but no one's ranting online about how he's being oppressed and "objectified" because, at work, most people see him as "a cashier". I don't care to delve into the inner intellectual passions of the woman who made me tea at a cafe, but I'm not aware of any college courses being taught on the "objectification" of baristas. I have never fallen into deep romantic love with a nurse who's weighed me and taken my blood pressure at the doctor's office, but if there are protesters outside the clinic that day, their signs don't read, "Stop the exploitation of women! Planned Parenthood objectifies nurses as mere one-dimensional healthcare workers!"

We can't have a genuine connection with everyone we encounter in our lives, whether they are strippers or bus drivers or sales clerks at a shoe store. To say that "being objectified" as a sex worker is somehow so vastly different than "being objectified" in any other role is telling about the accuser's personal issues with the sex, not the work.

Some people try to "take a step back" and use this as a part of a broader critique of capitalism, but I disagree with that, too. So, under socialism, anarchism, or what-have-you-ism, every human will express heartfelt interest in the well-being of every single human they come into contact with over the course of a day? I find that quite silly.

We all choose how we pick some people as our lovers, some as our friends, some as acquaintances we smile at politely once a week. It's not about economic systems or patriarchy or oppression- it's about time and energy. No one has the time and energy to emotionally/intellectually intertwine themselves in everyone they interact with, and it's ludicrous to think that one should or could.

Whether we choose to not invest ourselves in the janitor or to not invest ourselves in the cam girl, it doesn't matter on an ethical level. One is not inherently a Major Social Problem just because it involves sex.


Taken from here:
http://www.feminisnt.com/2009/frequently-addressed-accusation-porn-objectifies-women-as-sex-objects/
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Mark_S



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Time Vortex

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Feminist should stand up and encourage them to seek out their dream jobs and get out of the adult entertainment industry.


I agree. As Barackstar says and leutchi echoes in their sig "Teach her how to rock, and you feed her for life." But throw at her a rock, then the feminists must get ready to run away from the boulder.

Quote:
They say, "porn objectifies women!" as though that's some kind of end-all analysis. I address this topic from two directions.


Wow, ok, that was really some profound insight into a sex worker's way of thinking. I applaud this woman.

Everyone, including the feminists, perceive and analyze porn from their own sphere of understanding. If they, as supposedly confidant women, would not "fall as low" as selling their flesh, then no one should. What they don't understand is that there are other facets to the porn or sex-work industry than "falling low."
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Curly upped the stakes pretty quick, didn't she?
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delakando wrote:
Why feminist find it demeaning is that they feel it objectifies women. That may be true but what lured them into the business?.


FWIW, with the advent of the internet, porn can now be created entirely via photo manipulation and such, so it needn't actually involve any participation by women (unless it's being created by women, which can happen).

So, theoretically, porn can involve images and themes for which no sane woman would ever pose.

I'm just sayin'.
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leutchi



Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 125
Location: Goldenrod City

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha! Finally found a good example of Squig not being able to follow through on an act:



(will keep looking for others)
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad he is giving all of this some thought and seems to be showing self reflection.

I am sorry he is just doing it to try and win a "debate."
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1835
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ookamo wrote:
"What is porn?"


Baby don't hurt me ... don't hurt me ... no more.
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Delakando



Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question - Why do feminist feel that 2D characters have humans rights? Confused

Quote:
Do fictional characters have human rights? Feminists working with the Japanese government apparently think so.
From a series of documents published on the Japanese cabinet’s Gender Equality Bureau, who may already be familiar:
Media depictions of sexual violence against women constitute a violation of the human rights of women, and are a major obstacle to the creation of a gender-equal society.
[…]
Where violent or sexual media depictions of women are concerned, we must promote public understanding of this as a “human rights violation,” and ensure media are subjected to voluntary restraints.
[…]
Voluntary censorship of media depictions of sexual violence should be promoted, and laws including censorship of virtual sexual violence against women in DVDs, video and PC games should be considered.
Rarely has the concept of “human rights” been abused so egregiously as by the latest wave of feminist inspired moral panic over two dimensional media.
In fact even the most cursory consideration reveals censorship according to “virtual human rights” could easily threaten a complete elimination of freedom of expression – if fictional women and children have human rights, by extension even men may have them too, meaning any story dealing with nonconsensual violence against men (practically all fiction of any interest) involves massive human rights violations.
Indeed, any criticism of the brave defenders of the rights of non-existent people might as well be condemned as promoting human rights violations.
The fundamental irony of using the rubric of “human rights” to rob people of one of their most fundamental rights seems lost on the advocates of this new wave of moral hysteria – hardly surprising considering it appears they have simply decided to parrot a serious sounding UN buzzword in the hopes of giving their extremist writings an air of legal credibility, with no appreciation of the ridiculousness of what they are saying.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
In b4 people with fewer than 20 posts total roll up to talk about how Tat's losing faithful readers because of comics like this.


Well, that may indicate that longtime readers who never before felt the need to discuss the strip are now finally sufficiently motivated to do so, "proving" that this is really important to them.

Or it may not, there's also that.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, if Tat's gonna keep this porn thing going much longer, he could at least involve more Devil Girls. Fuchsia needs to (for lack of a better phrase) be saved for getting her own arc back on track (for God's sake, did she get the job or not?!), and I doubt that Blue, veteran of Evil's trenches, would waste her hard-earned cynicism on a porn debate, but there are still all those others to consider, some of whom may be, like Lime, thorough naifs about this sort of thing. It'd be kind of ironic if Mint, an apparent Devil Civilian, turned out to be more worldly than a bunch of exotic dancers and/or newly hired employees of The Devil himself.

I'm not sure even the Sisterhood is prepared for Pebbles, though...
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6461

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think being in porn demeans women or in any way makes her less of a person.

It is their choice to be in a film designed specifically for sexual purposes. They have every right to make that choice and I will not sit here and pick apart their reasons because IT IS THEIR RIGHT to be a part of such a thing and I in no way want to take that away from them.

My problem is with assuming women who are NOT a part of porn are somehow fair game because some people think they have some inherent right over other people's bodies. My problem is also with people who assume that just because someone is in porn, or is a stripper, or whatever, means that they've given explicit consent to take things further than they actually want to go. They haven't.

None of this is to say I don't think the current porn industry has some pretty harmful failings, but I refuse to fault someone just because they're in porn.
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MasterMorality



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"To me, pornography is, you know, spending all your money and not educating the people in America, and spending it instead on weapons, that's pornographic to me, that's totally filthy and etc., etc.

[...]

Supreme Court says pornography is anything without artistic merit that causes sexual thoughts; that's their definition, essentially. No artistic merit, causes sexual thoughts. Hmm. . . . Sounds like every commercial on television, doesn't it?

You know, when I see those two twins on that Doublemint commercial- I'm not thinking of gum. I am thinking of chewing, maybe that's the connection they're trying to make. What? You've all seen that Busch beer commercial, where the girl in the short hot-pants opens the beer bottle on her belt buckle, leaves it there and it foams over her hand and over the bottle and the voice over goes, "Get yourself a Buuuusch." Hmm. You know what that looks like? Nah, no way...”

- Bill Hicks
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Estranged



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder when Tat will stop this self-bashing.

A lot of men constantly have to face rejection and must maintain self-supression of their friendzoned feelings. Porn is a fantasy world where all of their sexual desires are possible and accepted.

Quote:
Porn can be likened to the fantasies of an impoverished developing nation—it’s people imagine a world with abundant and plentiful food. Romance novels are, on the other hand, the fantasies of a prosperous nation—sprawling McMansions, yachts, vacations to the Caribbean.


The quote is from this link - Male sexuality undemonized
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/male-sexuality-un-demonized/
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