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What Is Porn
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I forgot to say, thanks to everyone who complimented my picture. It was very much appreciated!
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark_S wrote:
Quote:
Feminist should stand up and encourage them to seek out their dream jobs and get out of the adult entertainment industry.


I agree. As Barackstar says and leutchi echoes in their sig "Teach her how to rock, and you feed her for life." But throw at her a rock, then the feminists must get ready to run away from the boulder.

Quote:
They say, "porn objectifies women!" as though that's some kind of end-all analysis. I address this topic from two directions.


Wow, ok, that was really some profound insight into a sex worker's way of thinking. I applaud this woman.

Everyone, including the feminists, perceive and analyze porn from their own sphere of understanding. If they, as supposedly confidant women, would not "fall as low" as selling their flesh, then no one should. What they don't understand is that there are other facets to the porn or sex-work industry than "falling low."

If I were better looking, a woman, gay, or a fetishist I would be a porn star in a heart beat.

Namely 'cause it's easy money.

Now strippers, there's a hard job. Dancing all those hours in those position in high heels with often intoxicated patrons literately within arms reach is hell compared to the porn industries.

Porn for guys is hard work (no pun). I've known a few guys who thought porn would be easy work. Turns out being forced to ejaculate over half a dozen times in a row within the span of less than half an hour is not very fun and quite painful to the genitals.

Lastly, comparing sexism in the US vs sexism in Japan is like comparing racism in Washington State to racism in Georgia -- sure it exist in both places but the magnitude, scale, and history of both places is completely different.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3252

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
If I were better looking, a woman, gay, or a fetishist I would be a porn star in a heart beat.
(bold red font added)

So, not if you were better-looking and a woman, then.

Wink
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am none of those four, but yeah, 'and/or' would be more accurate. I'd need to meet at least one requirement. I'm pretty hairy and kinda chubby so in my current condition, unless I was into doing "gay bear" porn or some kind of fetish (fetish porn pays more btw) I wouldn't have much of a career.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal anecdote time.

So when I was younger, my older sister worked as a stripper in las vegas. When I turned 18 she brought me a shirt from the club she worked at, signed by all the dancers. (I'm not sure why she thought thatd be a thing a younger brother would want but there it is). One of the signatures, and I'm also sure this wasn't something she saw read thusly.

A girl two years older than me wrote:
Congratulations on graduation Ryan, Good luck in college, I never made it that far


For whatever reason I've never been able to set foot in a strip joint after reading that. Maybe I read too much into it but there was a kind of wistful dream that that girl's life could have turned out differently in that signature that just made the whole thing depressing to me.

So I find it kind of ...annoying, I can't quite call it offensive when people post up these interviews from porn stars who are eager to call people opposed to it sex-negative and talk about how they love their job and how great it is for them.

That's great for those who decided that porn was what they wanted to do with their lives, but what about the people who were bullied into it, the masses of "revenge porn" websites where people post videos of their ex lovers on the internet, the porn that comes as a result of human trafficking , and the outright vile shit like crush videos? All porn is not created equal and just because some women out there choose the industry with an educated eye and of their own free will, doesn't mean there isn't a whole bunch of vile shit out there and women who are trapped in such a job because it's that or not being able to pay rent because 15 hours a week at mcdonalds doesn't pay enough.

It also doesn't address the issues of drug addiction, disease, forced or coerced prostitution, underage actors, and suicide prevalent in the porn industry today. Nor does it address the issues of plastic surgery in an effort to have a porn body, the effect that has on men's perception of women, and women's perception of themselves.

So the next time you see some woman in your porn woodenly crooning out endearments to some neanderthal browed man with a cock the size of a barnyard animal, just realize, the odds aren't good that this was her plan for her future when she was growing up.
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Estranged



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Monkey Mcdremott

The same applies to many other occupations. Some people end up in them because of lack of other options. Does that mean we have to deprive those people even from that option and direct them to a government approved sweatshop instead? Does it mean you can end demand for a basic human need?

I also have to remind that a person can be enslaved in a factory or in a farm. Nobody's banning the products of factories and farms as inherently evil though.


Last edited by Estranged on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
the odds aren't good that this was her plan for her future when she was growing up.
This statement is true regardless of the gender or the profession.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the way you address the last line of my post as though that was the meat of my thoughts, but you're wrong.

I don't know about in bulgaria, I can only speak from my experience in america but there actually Is a pretty significant outcry, and often boycotts are organized in my area when it comes out that a company is "enslaving" people in sweatshops.

Edit: And that yknow, completely ignores the ridiculousness of comparing having a shit farm or factory job that barely keeps you fed to exposing all the intimate details of your body and having sex on camera to be disseminated to the masses. Or, being shanghaied as a teenager and forced into prostitution and porn.


Last edited by Monkey Mcdermott on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Personal anecdote time.

So when I was younger, my older sister worked as a stripper in las vegas. When I turned 18 she brought me a shirt from the club she worked at, signed by all the dancers. (I'm not sure why she thought thatd be a thing a younger brother would want but there it is). One of the signatures, and I'm also sure this wasn't something she saw read thusly.

A girl two years older than me wrote:
Congratulations on graduation Ryan, Good luck in college, I never made it that far


With all due respect, lots of people don't make it as far as college. I doubt that the average (random examples in no particular order) cab driver, garbage collector, janitor, stablehand, motel maid, cemetery groundskeeper, or gas station attendant did. What does that prove?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movies are movies, whether porn or otherwise: the reality of the movie creation is often far, far removed from the fantasy of the finished product.

On a related note, I wonder if any economists out there has looked for correlations between sex workers, amateur porn, and the 2008 economic crisis.
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Estranged



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I like the way you address the last line of my post as though that was the meat of my thoughts, but you're wrong.

I don't know about in bulgaria, I can only speak from my experience in america but there actually Is a pretty significant outcry, and often boycotts are organized in my area when it comes out that a company is "enslaving" people in sweatshops.


Both Americans and gloomy post-Soviet Eastern Europeans like myself use stuff that comes from China. And China doesn't have the best track record when it comes to human rights of workers.

And also, notice: there's an outcry for a particular injustice, it would be absurd if the outcry was directed towards the very industry and the product itself!
Like, "DESTROY YOUR COMPUTERS" or "DESTROY YOUR ACTION FIGURES COLLECTION", if we go in the direction of today's strip.


Last edited by Estranged on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I like the way you address the last line of my post as though that was the meat of my thoughts, but you're wrong.
I agree with most of what you said. I've never been to a stripclub and never talked to anyone that worked for one (to my knowledge), so I can't speak from personal experience, but I wouldn't disagree with the picture you paint of them. However, it just seemed to me what you were saying was a little one sided.

I am sorry if you felt I was marginalizing your story, that was not my intent. I just wanted to point out that most people don't do what they wanted to do as a child. At this point I feel the need to add that going to college isn't the end all and be all of a person's life.

However, it sounded like the person that wrote on your shirt really did want to go, and -in that case- I agree it is sad that she did not.
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Other people have it bad, too" does not make an acceptable reason to tolerate an existing injustice.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
"Other people have it bad, too" does not make an acceptable reason to tolerate an existing injustice.
So, you feel its an injustice that most people have shitty jobs? Or just shitty jobs in the porn industry?

Or, to put it another way, is there something extra-injustice'y about there being shitty porn jobs?
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I like the way you address the last line of my post as though that was the meat of my thoughts, but you're wrong.
I agree with most of what you said. I've never been to a stripclub and never talked to anyone that worked for one (to my knowledge), so I can't speak from personal experience, but I wouldn't disagree with the picture you paint of them. However, it just seemed to me what you were saying was a little one sided.

I am sorry if you felt I was marginalizing your story, that was not my intent. I just wanted to point out that most people don't do what they wanted to do as a child. At this point I feel the need to add that going to college isn't the end all and be all of a person's life.

However, it sounded like the person that wrote on your shirt really did want to go, and -in that case- I agree it is sad that she did not.


There's this thing called the "stripper myth". It's the notion that most strippers are working their way through college and/or single moms trying to support their kids. The reality is they're mostly drug addicts feeding their coke/meth/heroin/pick-your-drug addiction. BTW a lot don't start out that way, hell I'd say most, but somewhere along the way things go wrong.
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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