welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2012-06-13: Dudebro Fail
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6508

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Popcorn! Get ya popcorn here!


I'm not sure why we're wearing 3D glasses, Darq. We'll call it a 10th Doctor reference.
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2764
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I present for you: takotsubo, otherwise known as "broken heart syndrome," in which your heart becomes seriously fucked up (medical term) as a result of acute emotional stress.


Interesting. Didn't know the beastie had a name.

Didn't really plan on causing a forum drama storm but I can say that my boyfriend's currently doing quite well. I simply remind him every once in a while that he can say what's wrong. Just like he reminds me not to beat myself up every time I make a (simple) mistake.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10799
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry. We use any excuse to ramble on. It's part of our... I don't, charm, I guess.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude bro bro dude


dude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Dude. Bro.

Duuude.

Let those dudely tears flow. Bro.


They're just not good for you, Rants. Let's go down town and get a drink, my treat. It's okay to be sad, but we'd rather be happy!



You can't tell me what to feel. Being sad makes me happy.

I almost never cry over things that happen in reality, btw. I like to get emotional release from fiction.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashland



Joined: 15 May 2012
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I present for you: takotsubo, otherwise known as "broken heart syndrome," in which your heart becomes seriously fucked up (medical term) as a result of acute emotional stress.


Yes, Dogen. Prolonged episodes of stress are known to produce medical problems, including but not limited to heart disease. That's a good observation.

And that, of course, is why you don't want to drag out someone's stress any longer than is strictly necessary. You can whine about the context all you want, but something like a death in the family, whoever it may be that is involved as a supporting party, cannot be fixed by talking. That's why I said you should help someone feel better, but not by forcing them to discuss their negative feelings. Venting is just not productive - like the supposedly "cathartic" video games that aren't, venting only stimulates an emotion and it is not cathartic.

Quote:
I really like how I went from completely unmemorable to capable of ruining the ENTIRE forum in no more than two pages.

Progress!


The thing is, the conversation had moved on past you and we were on our way to forgetting you. Then you jumped in, waving your arms around and yelling about, well, you. You see what I mean? You're so worried about you that you're actually forcing people to sit down, pay attention, and analyze you.

Quote:
You can't tell me what to feel. Being sad makes me happy.

I almost never cry over things that happen in reality, btw. I like to get emotional release from fiction.


It's nice to be able to enjoy an emotional roller coaster in a controlled environment sometimes. That's very true, Rants. I don't think you'll suffer any physiological damage from it.
_________________
Everyone thinks they are individuals who follow their own rules. However, man is a being of patterns. He has habits because without them he would cease to be. Though perhaps possessed of creativity, he will always be merely human.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2764
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Don't worry. We use any excuse to ramble on. It's part of our... I don't, charm, I guess.


I like when I look at your post and your avatar I imagine someone smiling while saying this. xD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6508

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always appreciated the Fonz advocating to respect women and occasionally delving into arguments about psychological theory.
_________________
Samsally the GrayAce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10799
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:
Dogen wrote:
I present for you: takotsubo, otherwise known as "broken heart syndrome," in which your heart becomes seriously fucked up (medical term) as a result of acute emotional stress.


Yes, Dogen. Prolonged episodes of stress are known to produce medical problems, including but not limited to heart disease. That's a good observation.

And that, of course, is why you don't want to drag out someone's stress any longer than is strictly necessary. You can whine about the context all you want, but something like a death in the family, whoever it may be that is involved as a supporting party, cannot be fixed by talking. That's why I said you should help someone feel better, but not by forcing them to discuss their negative feelings. Venting is just not productive - like the supposedly "cathartic" video games that aren't, venting only stimulates an emotion and it is not cathartic.

Unfortunately, you're simply wrong (1), but that's okay! Because you're also an ass! And if I had to pick one to suggest you work on, I'd tell you not to worry about being wrong. People will forgive that. Wink

See, your problem is you want for there to be one answer, but that's just not the case. People are all unique - precious snowflakes, don'tchaknow. Some people internalize, dissect, analyze and move on, others somatize; some ruminate, others ignore; some using active coping mechanisms, others passive. Some people - not naming names! - assume they know what's best for everybody and try to force everyone into the same mold, while others accept that individuals have a collection of past experiences that inform the ways they handle emotional stress. One of those people is wrong, and the other is Dogen!

Quote:
Quote:
You can't tell me what to feel. Being sad makes me happy.

I almost never cry over things that happen in reality, btw. I like to get emotional release from fiction.


It's nice to be able to enjoy an emotional roller coaster in a controlled environment sometimes. That's very true, Rants. I don't think you'll suffer any physiological damage from it.

I'm sure Rants feels super relieved that someone whose understanding of human psychology comes from reading the internet (or was it iTunes University?) and dating someone who actually went to university has decided she'll be okay. You should open a practice! It would be easy, since you'd only need to know one type of therapy.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17282
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:

And that, of course, is why you don't want to drag out someone's stress any longer than is strictly necessary. You can whine about the context all you want, but something like a death in the family, whoever it may be that is involved as a supporting party, cannot be fixed by talking. That's why I said you should help someone feel better, but not by forcing them to discuss their negative feelings.


i think this is your problem - you are associating all talking with forcing someone to discuss their negative feelings. you can talk, and express feelings, without them necessarily being negative.

i am not a psych major, but when my mother died, it helped to talk about her - the thing we did, the things i missed. yes, talking about those things sometimes made me cry. but being around people who knew she was dead, but steadfastly refused to mention that, made me feel like they didn't care - not about her, not about me.

sometimes it's important that the people around you acknowledge that you have a good reason to be sad, or angry, or depressed. just because you can't 'fix' it doesn't mean you can't help the person feel better about things (and venting can really help). the death of someone close to you stays with you for the rest of your life. you get over it when you get over it, but that's not by refusing to make any mention that it happened.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashland



Joined: 15 May 2012
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately, you're simply wrong


God, I hate when academic researchers go out of their way to slow down an explanation of a simple test that anyone could administer.

Basically, what you've linked me to is a test from the cognitive school of therapy. I'm seeing that they showed some unpleasant things, then explained away the unpleasant things to one group and then had the other group "socio-affect", which means sitting closer to one another, in essence. Not seeing anything about a control group in the abstract...

The abstract doesn't really mention how "emotional adjustment" was measured, either. The fact that some people were taught that they were fixing their emotional problems is an issue. See, this is why you need a control... If they're self-reporting then they'll almost always believe what the researcher tells them and they'll follow researcher expectations.

I suppose if you want to generalize this to the case of a death in the family, you might argue that saying there is a God and a Heaven helps some people accept the case. That's what cognitive therapy is - it's changing the way people think about things. However, that's not the same as bringing the people to talk about their feelings and vent. What that is, is changing a person's whole perspective of the situation.

If we want to apply that to the comic, we could say that Squig should talk about his porn problem to Curly because she can lie to him and tell him things that will change his perspective. Like, for instance, that the guilt he feels is right and that makes him a good person, and the reason he can't stop is because a patriarchy.

Quote:
See, your problem is you want for there to be one answer, but that's just not the case. People are all unique - precious snowflakes, don'tchaknow. Some people internalize, dissect, analyze and move on, others somatize; some ruminate, others ignore; some using active coping mechanisms, others passive. Some people - not naming names! - assume they know what's best for everybody and try to force everyone into the same mold, while others accept that individuals have a collection of past experiences that inform the ways they handle emotional stress. One of those people is wrong, and the other is Dogen!


And Dogen, what you're doing is broadening the argument so that you can still be right to contradict me. It's like when ShadowCell would change the subject so he could could be right about some unrelated topic. I said specifically that it's better to help people with unsolvable problems by cheering them up and not forcing them to remember the hardship. I did not say it wasn't also possible to convince someone they don't have a problem when in reality they may or may not.

Quote:
I'm sure Rants feels super relieved that someone whose understanding of human psychology comes from reading the internet (or was it iTunes University?) and dating someone who actually went to university has decided she'll be okay. You should open a practice! It would be easy, since you'd only need to know one type of therapy.


Let me set the Appeal to Authority fallacy aside: how long ago was it that you graduated with your degree? Most psychology majors don't enter the psychological field unless they get a PhD or MD, so saying you've got a psychology degree just means you have a psychology degree. It doesn't mean that you're current in your knowledge or that someone who is more current would respect your expertise.

Besides, you have no idea what kind of education I have, how old I am, or anything of that nature. I very seriously may or may not think much of a psychology degree. I could be anything from a professor to a dock worker. How exactly do you logic your way to insulting my education as a discredit to my arguments?
_________________
Everyone thinks they are individuals who follow their own rules. However, man is a being of patterns. He has habits because without them he would cease to be. Though perhaps possessed of creativity, he will always be merely human.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr Gary



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 6259
Location: Some pub in England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think the best way to put it is that stimulating any kind of emotion will stimulate that emotion.


I'm a bit late, perhaps, but can I nominate this for tautology of the year?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6080
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why isn't that already a Sinnie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10799
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:
God, I hate when academic researchers go out of their way to slow down an explanation of a simple test that anyone could administer.

I know, right!? Why aren't you teaching this shit? You are obviously better qualified!

Quote:
Basically, what you've linked me to is a test from the cognitive school of therapy. I'm seeing that they showed some unpleasant things, then explained away the unpleasant things to one group and then had the other group "socio-affect", which means sitting closer to one another, in essence. Not seeing anything about a control group in the abstract...

That's because you don't know anything about statistics! A 2x2 analysis divides participants into 4 groups, varying on two independent variables. In this case you have:
Code:
       Socio-affective | Neutral
Cognitive     |___X____|____X___|
Non-cognitive |___X____|____X___|

Those are your four groups (each represented by an X). Socio-affective with cognitive processing, socio-affective without cognitive processing, neutral with cognitive processing and neutral without cognitive processing. The last group is the control. Granted, that isn't explained well in the abstract, but if you knew what a 2x2 was, you'd have known. You were so close to having a point, though!

Quote:
The abstract doesn't really mention how "emotional adjustment" was measured, either. The fact that some people were taught that they were fixing their emotional problems is an issue. See, this is why you need a control... If they're self-reporting then they'll almost always believe what the researcher tells them and they'll follow researcher expectations.

Ooo... if only any of this were true in light of the fact that 1) they did have a control (thanks for explaining why it's important, though, I totally didn't know that!), and 2) it doesn't say they "were taught that they were fixing their emotional problems," it says many people believe venting resolves the emotional impact. The "intimates" were taught how to respond, not the participants. Seriously, experimenter effects? That's your critique? You need to put more effort into learning about the science and statistics part of psychology. You don't get published in a peer-reviewed journal if you tell your participants the results your looking for. That's sophomore stuff, my friend.

Quote:
I suppose if you want to generalize this to the case of a death in the family, you might argue that saying there is a God and a Heaven helps some people accept the case. That's what cognitive therapy is - it's changing the way people think about things. However, that's not the same as bringing the people to talk about their feelings and vent. What that is, is changing a person's whole perspective of the situation.

So, umm... sometimes talking about a death in the family is helpful? Okay! I think we're done here!

Quote:
And Dogen, what you're doing is broadening the argument so that you can still be right to contradict me. It's like when ShadowCell would change the subject so he could could be right about some unrelated topic. I said specifically that it's better to help people with unsolvable problems by cheering them up and not forcing them to remember the hardship. I did not say it wasn't also possible to convince someone they don't have a problem when in reality they may or may not.

Uhh... right... and I said that, regardless of the type of problem, some people will handle it without talking and some people will benefit from interventions. My point was that it's how the person handles the problem, rather than the problem itself, that determines what type of intervention (if any) is necessary. You seem to feel it's determined by the problem itself. You can call that "broadening" if you like. I call it "being absolutely right."

Quote:
Let me set the Appeal to Authority fallacy aside:

First, that wasn't an appeal to authority, and second, informal fallacies aren't capitalized because they aren't proper nouns.

An appeal to authority would be if I claimed you were wrong because an outside expert agreed with me. That, by the way, isn't necessarily fallacious. You'd have to prove either that the authority didn't agree with me, that they weren't an authority, or that a significant group of other experts disagreed with my expert.

What I did was an ad hominem, where I attacked your credibility rather than your argument. Really, if you're going to be a know-it-all dick on the internet, take it from someone who knows: nail down your logical fallacies! Nothing makes you look like more of a douche than trying to lay the logical smackdown on someone only to have it turned around on you.

Quote:
Besides, you have no idea what kind of education I have, how old I am, or anything of that nature. I very seriously may or may not think much of a psychology degree. I could be anything from a professor to a dock worker. How exactly do you logic your way to insulting my education as a discredit to my arguments?

Well, I know you're dating someone who recently graduated with a psychology degree, which means statistically you're most likely in your early 20s. If you're a professor, it's clearly not of psychology or any of the social sciences because you don't know dick about psychology or how we do research in social science. Also, I insult you because you're an asshole - the same reason I gave you last time I spent several days making you look foolish.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6080
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if he's a professor, why would he bother typing up these self-important screeds for anonymous internet people to read when he could just make his TAs read them and get all the asspats he wants instead

i call shenanigans upon this
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group