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oops 6/14/12
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Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really agree with Zorlond. Strip would be better off without the bike riding girl. I wouldn't notice if she wasn't there.
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Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh. Just thought. Revolutionalising and no-one notices, or particularly cares. The bike-riding girl is Him.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 2055
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him? Like, the dude from PPG? Or Him as in that's an acronym for something I don't know anything about?
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Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
I'm just going to casually leave a couple helpful links here.

http://adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com/post/13913540194/mary-sue-what-are-you-or-why-the-concept-of-sue-is
http://improper.dreamwidth.org/108159.html
http://soiscrewedmycompanions.tumblr.com/post/22723485920/words-im-starting-to-hate
http://jezebelfactory.tumblr.com/post/9956574519/megan-rosalarian-gedris-oh-what-nonsense


As someone who has spent a long time in roleplay chatrooms with various supposed 'Mary Sues' (many times even accused as one myself) I find this viewpoint refreshing. Thankyou. These are very interesting links. There are always extremes of characters of course but not every female character with good luck in her life goals is some heinous witch that needs to be burned at the stake.

I spent my youth terrorized by the concept of Mary Sue. It was the thing you simply did not DO. If you played a Mary Sue in a roleplay or wrote one in a story that was just DEATH and everyone would shake their heads at you looking on in pity. The scorned and scandalized. One of my earliest friends campaigned against Mary Sues with the tenacity of a german shephard after an escaped convict. She went out of her way to find and attack these people, most of which were little kids just starting out roleplaying, and made them feel like shit so many quit the groups crying and probably never roleplayed again (or worse, you never know) she basically connotated them with whores and if you played one your entire integral worth was in question. It was as if pornographic pictures of you had emerged on the net. She made me so afraid of being accused of it that I ended up only ever playing male characters and still have issues plucking up the courage to make or write about female characters.

There are characters who are really awful it's true like the first link says Bella Swan is pretty much a classic representation of that stereotype. But the term is thrown around far too easily. And in a comic like Sinfest I find the use of the term fully ridiculous.

Most of these characters have super human abilities and even if they don't it's a COMIC with a clearly defined Reality Zone for god's sake. Doesn't that suggest outside the Reality Zone reality and it's societal norms are in the minority? Or should the characters be expected to conform to the viewpoints of the small-minded, whilst they're sitting about watching a puppet of God?!

If we were to start labelling Mary Sues in the strip then you might as well accuse every female character. All of the devil girls especially and Monique. Glossy doesn't strike me as a Mary Sue at all. Infact she's the Anti-Sue, she's fighting for the individuality and strength of the women beyond the men's ideal. If she were a Sue she'd be sitting in Big D's lap fawning on him in some scantily clad number because he's the most powerful male character and it's a Sue's goal to achieve closeness to that.

Glossy is an awesome character, I really like her. She adds more depth to the strip and yes some might say 'But does the strip really need more depth? The simple funnyness was better'. The simple strips were fine when the comic started but after a while the same old gags on repeat get boring. Sooner or later you need to change direction for a while. Glossy is just Tat's way of branching out with something new. The people who seem to fear and hate her most are those who don't want to be introspective, they don't want to see new things, they just want to see Devil Girls jiggling. They're the ones most under the spell of the Patriachy. Give it in and let yourselves become free. Very Happy
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Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What depth though? She just roars around and utters platitudes that everyone ends up ignoring or attempts to "stick it to the man" in a way that is so easily and quickly squashed they're almost irrelevant.

Really, whatever her character adds in terms of message could well have been handled through monique's recent change. She's the least inspiring leader figure you could imagine. She challenges nothing, she leads nothing. She's like a hipster blog - all image and no effect.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6115
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halen wrote:
Heh. Just thought. Revolutionalising and no-one notices, or particularly cares. The bike-riding girl is Him.


whoa whoa whoa whoa dude come on that's not fair

i don't think she's fucked a teenage girl yet
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6566

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, Shadowcell. Like, I'm kind of afraid of Sinfest fanfiction because god knows what goes down in there.

Counting strictly canon though... no, I don't think she has. To be fair, it seems unlikely ANYBODY is getting laid in the strip right now.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2840
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of Sinfest characters cast truly have depth beyond Nique, Slick, Fuchsia and Squig? Nameless hat guy, gay guy, Pebbles, etc etc - they all don't really have any depth or add anything of value. I don't see why Glossy, out of everyone, is the most terrible of them all.

Also when it comes to Mary Sue, some people will hate any OC in a fanfic. I will usually accept any OC as long as there's character building and if s/he doesn't instantly start off with sparkly rainbow color changing hair and eye crap.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10897
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate eye crap.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17420
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Him? Like, the dude from PPG? Or Him as in that's an acronym for something I don't know anything about?


Him as in another fester who is noted for revolutionizing in stockholm (when not sleeping with every girl he encounters).
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6566

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently he found himself trapped in 2005 before disappearing completely.

He had better give the Doctor my address, is all I'm saying.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2043
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually would notice if Whatserface* simply disappeared from the strip. There'd suddenly be an immense void in the forum where endless bitching about feminism once was.

*Relax, I only call her that because we don't know her name yet.
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mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
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Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But without the endless bitching there'd BE no forum. Sinfest forums pretty much is made up of endless bitching Laughing It's what most of us thrive on.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2043
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely my point, except the endless bitching would no longer be about feminism.
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mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Succubus1982 wrote:
Blah blah Mary Sues blah blah female characters blah blah only played male characters in roleplays to avoid the Sue blah blah Sinfest's entire female cast blah blah


Completely missing the point. The terribleness of a Mary Sue has absolutely nothing to do with its gender.
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