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June 23: Jerk Factory
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1168
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:
I mean, all this shit basically boils down to whether or not you're a believer. If you believe in feminism, you'll be saved. If you don't, you've been fed lies by the great fatherhood and must be cleansed of your wicked ways. You've been tricked by a diabolic system that pervades every corner of society so deeply that none of us could possibly even see or understand the methodology for determining equality and fairness. Our minds are, like, prisoners to the system, man! I mean woman. See? I've gone and been a patriarchy again. It's tough being a mass-produced product from the chauvinism factory, but not as tough as it is being a woman, obviously.

You know what slays me, though? The men who are stronger supporters of feminism than women, they not really realizing that white knighting the entire thing for the victimized women is really just the same bullshit they pretend they're fighting.

Tat displays Monique being victimized, there are no strong female characters except for Blue, who works for the goddamned patriarchy anyway, and they need to be saved somehow. Yes, Monique's being saved by Glossy in the comic, who is a girl, but it's Tat, a man, writing the stupid script to save his female characters from being oppressed by men.

I keep coming back to this, but if Tat doesn't want his female characters to be oppressed, why doesn't he give them a fair shot in his story and stop oppressing them?

And while it's true Tat is pulling the strings and has his own agenda, he's writing in something the way he believes. You can't say his point is invalid because he isn't female to argue for them.

And there in is the base that everyone keeps arguing against. You all keep propagating this idea of "straw feminists" that are out to take everything. Even if Tat is completely trying to push the "no porn" issue straightforward as JUST that, which I don't believe he is, as how often his characters have multiple meanings and reasons, he can be doing it for the reason WE mention...In that I mean how we believe porn as it is now, is degrading to women and propagates that.

The idea of feminism at it's core is just to to stop the notion existing that women are inferior to men. That's it. Anything beyond that is people's personal opinions and branches of feminism.

Heck, that might NOT be his intention. It might be his intention to be writing a dang story where the characters are "characters" and he wants to go about having an interesting setup. The reason he shows Glossy and her compatriates in a good light is not necessarily because "It's his agenda". It could also be because he BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS. He also portrays Jesus, Buddah and many others in a good light. It doesn't mean he's cramming a religion down your throat. =/

But when you say specifically
Quote:
You know what slays me, though? The men who are stronger supporters of feminism than women, they not really realizing that white knighting the entire thing for the victimized women is really just the same bullshit they pretend they're fighting.

"White knighting" isn't a bad thing first off. Standing up for someone in a bad position is not bad. The knight could be a girl too. The idea is that it DOESN'T matter what sexes are. You try to turn it around with by perverting the idea of feminism and using the straw feminist scapegoat. This is no different than me being against the dehumanizing of the Jewish people under the Nazis. You can't tell me if I stand up for them or Tat does, he's doing it wrong because, he's somehow demeaning them by not leaving them alone to fight the battle themselves.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6634

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only really been skimming this thread because I'm taking a break from getting too angry this weekend but holy shit.

I'm the worst judge of character, as it turns out. Also, when presented with creep-factor this high, I check to make sure I'm wearing mace, even when it isn't logical because this is all on the internet.

Well anyway. I'm probably going to hide from this thread for a while.
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xueye



Joined: 06 May 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This feminist thing is dragging on and on. I hope the comic returns to having a story some time.

As it stands, "OMG I'M OPPRESSED" is getting pretty boring because it's been all we see for as long as I can remember.
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daveshan



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...

Just...wow.

Kylra wrote:
]
I see you have also employed the age old "but how else are we supposed to safely work out our sexual desires to if we can't look at some women being degraded for our benefit" argument. Maybe if you were defending the .001% of porn and porn use that does not degrade women you'd have point, but otherwise, porn is currently one of those things supporting the oppression of women.


I didn't say it was the only way. I said it helps MEN AND WOMEN. Talking works too. Exercise works too. Promising your virginity to Jesus until your wedding night helps too. And masturbating to a 30+ minute video or a few pictures helps too.

And ".001%"? I'm guessing you've chosen to remain completely ignorant of what you're arguing against. There is a lot of porn out there that shows mutually-loving couples engaged in consensual sex that does not degrade either one of them. My favorite erotic stories site has entire sections dedicated to 'Erotic coupling' 'Romance' and 'loving wives.' Same goes for a video site that I go to and I can give you the names of these sites if you want them.


Kylra wrote:
daveshan wrote:

Allow me to explain something: To me, the only difference between a man and a woman is that men have penises, women have vaginas, and everything that occurs directly because of those different reproductive organs. People are people first and then they are a gender/skin color/religion/nationality/etc. I hate women's sports leagues because I view them as telling females "You're not as good as men and never will be. Don't try, just have this bone we're throwing you."


Excuse me while I go tell women that job discrimination because they are considered a pregnancy risk despite not being able to get pregnant that it's entirely because of the fact that women get pregnant that they receive less pay and promotions. And that their lack of social connections because they are not invited to the manager meetings in strip clubs (true story) is entirely justified by the fact that they have a vagina. And that men groping women in public transit (very common) is all ok because men can't control themselves.


What in the sweet Budda's heavenly name are you talking about? I was talking about how there's no inherent difference between men and women except for the biological process of conception and birth. How did you get to job discrimination and unfair treatment in strip clubs because of that?

Also, screw you for thinking men don't get sexually harassed by women. Men do. I have personally had my butt grabbed in the middle of my school hallway by a Freshman girl when I was a Junior and no one did anything about it when I told the faculty. I also nearly got raped by a girl in my own house when my roommate invited a friend over at 2:00 A.M. who decided to take off her clothes and climb on top of me when I was asleep, injured and exhausted (my roommate told her I was), and she refused to get off of me when I told her to. I literally had to shove her off of me and throw her out of my room. The end result of the story? My roommate said I needed to (and I quote) "Understand that, for a girl, being turned down for sex is really emotionally painful."

So don't tell me that sexual harassment is only done by males to females.


Kylra wrote:

Quote:

That being said, I LOVE porn and erotic stories that degrade women. Whether it's physically with beatings, chokings, and gagging or emotionally by making the woman think that she's in love with the man and he's just using her, making her try to justify rape as equaling love, or making her forever scared of something because it was used to violate her and she's too scared to tell anyone about it. Heck, I even like women exchanging sex for favors or submissiveness to powerful men at the expense of their dignity.

I'm not going to apologize. It's what gets me off. And a lot of girlfriends know I like to roleplay things like that. But I can separate fantasy from reality the same way people who get off on 'sissy' porn, where men are the ones degraded, can. I'm not going to whip or emotionally cripple anyone in real life. Even with sex, I know I can't do that without the other person or people being ok with it.

I'm making this rant that's probably tl;dr to let you know one thing: Don't worry about the violent porn. What you get off on and the way you treat people are two different things.

Nice to meet yet another man that unapologetically thinks women being beaten, raped and exploited is the sexiest and funnest thing to watch. That positive correlation and desire to see those things certainly has absolutely no effect whatsoever at all ever on your treatment of women in real life at anytime. That desire certainly and absolutely has not been at all shaped by how society today treats and thinks of women either. Nope, no effects what-so-ever.


I'm sorry. I was mistaken how I phrased that because I thought you could figure out that I was talking about the character that the girl is playing in the porn video. The fictional character. FICTIONAL CHARACTER!

How could you not see that? You quoted a line from me that was in the exact same post that reads:
I hate women's sports leagues because I view them as telling females "You're not as good as men and never will be. Don't try, just have this bone we're throwing you."

Heck, look at what else is in the quote you made where I talk about my taste in porn:
I'm not going to whip or emotionally cripple anyone in real life. Even with sex, I know I can't do that without the other person or people being ok with it.

HOW DO THOSE THINGS SAY I TREAT WOMEN BADLY? I view people as people. I don't care about gender except in scenarios where I'm looking to be romantically involved with someone.



Adyon wrote:
I think that the reason this part is so strong is because it speaks louder than the rest of what you said.
daveshan wrote:
I'm not going to apologize. It's what gets me off. And a lot of girlfriends know I like to roleplay things like that. But I can separate fantasy from reality the same way people who get off on 'sissy' porn, where men are the ones degraded, can. I'm not going to whip or emotionally cripple anyone in real life. Even with sex, I know I can't do that without the other person or people being ok with it.


The whole thing here is that you talk about there being no difference, but you refer to that as "sissy" porn. You say it like that making it sound like BDSM on a girl is normal where the other is a fetish.


Um... Adyon, that's what that type of porn is called. I'm being honest with you, I wasn't referring to it as a fetish. If you go to the average porn site and look at the categories, the one that has men being whipped, humiliated, hurt, degraded, etc. by women is labelled as "sissy porn." That's why I had it in quotes. You can find women dominating men in "BDSM" categories too, but if you want it in ways that don't involve bondage, it's under "sissy."

Misunderstanding on both our parts. However...

Adyon wrote:
The problem and what should change in my oppinion, is that the idea of women being "violently f*cked" like they don't matter is considered "normal" pornography like it's natural to be that way. It shouldn't be that someone would watch porn not knowing, because the industry thinks its "natural". Because while you will argue it doesn't, people are affected by that and will be likely to believe that's more "natural" in reality too. I'm not going to argue about people's desire to watch that kind of porn, even if I don't like it, as I'm a pretty "freedom" oriented person. But, I do however have problems with an industry's idea of what is normal.


...I was referring to the fictional character that the woman plays in the video. I don't get turned on by the thought of a person actually being raped and don't watch videos or look at pictures if the description reads "real rape." It's the same way you could think a war scene in a movie is awesome with tons of explosions and bullets and dead bodies, but would never want to see that in real life.


Heretical Rants wrote:
Adyon wrote:

daveshan wrote:
I'm not going to apologize. It's what gets me off. And a lot of girlfriends know I like to roleplay things like that. But I can separate fantasy from reality the same way people who get off on 'sissy' porn, where men are the ones degraded, can. I'm not going to whip or emotionally cripple anyone in real life. Even with sex, I know I can't do that without the other person or people being ok with it.


The whole thing here is that you talk about there being no difference, but you refer to that as "sissy" porn. You say it like that making it sound like BDSM on a girl is normal where the other is a fetish.


Yeah, that part of what he said fucking disgusts me too.


Again, I wasn't saying one was normal and one wasn't. "Sissy Porn" is the label of the category where you will find women dominating and humiliating men; that's why the word sissy was in quotes.

Misunderstanding again.



Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I didn't address any of those other "points" because it's pretty much patent bullshit, nearly every post you make is full of sexist thought, so it was unsurprising to me that you might like the more misogynistic hateful side of the porn industry.


So, despite the fact that 75% of the post was points that proved my tastes in porn don't effect my attitude towards people, you chose to ignore them because they were "patent bullshit"?

What sexist comments are you talking about? That I didn't like Glossy until two days ago because I saw her as a hypocrite? If it's about that stuff people thought I said about Tat, I already told everyone, I thought 'Tat' was what Glossy was named. I didn't know it's the nickname you guys gave Tatsuya.


And for all the people complaining that porn degrades women, can you show me the posts you made about how man-on-man porn teaches men who like having sex with men to degrade each other? Can you also show me where you complain how women who watch women-dominating-men porn are being taught to treat men like sex toys and garbage? If you can't, well, let's just say that's ok. I'll be used to it.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashland wrote:
I mean, I haven't yet dated a woman who won't admit to watching porn sometimes and it never seemed to hurt them. But Tat says it's wrong and they need to stop because it's causing them to... lose... empathy for women. Which is themselves.
Incorrect. Tat has not yet made a comic in which a woman watches porn for her own enjoyment. (or, if he has, please direct us all to it)
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Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daveshan wrote:

I didn't say it was the only way. I said it helps MEN AND WOMEN. Talking works too. Exercise works too. Promising your virginity to Jesus until your wedding night helps too. And masturbating to a 30+ minute video or a few pictures helps too.

Why not do those other things instead of supporting degradation of women?
Quote:

And ".001%"? I'm guessing you've chosen to remain completely ignorant of what you're arguing against. There is a lot of porn out there that shows mutually-loving couples engaged in consensual sex that does not degrade either one of them. My favorite erotic stories site has entire sections dedicated to 'Erotic coupling' 'Romance' and 'loving wives.' Same goes for a video site that I go to and I can give you the names of these sites if you want them.

I used to watch porn and I still occasionally browse for stories. I doubt you'll find very much heterosexual porn that has a dominant woman that isn't about the dude's fetish. Even lesbian stuff for that matter that isn't about a viewing man's fetish. At this point, I'm pretty sure you couldn't actually identify works that fit that simple criteria so save yourself the effort if you're considering it and please don't actually try to post a list.

Ostensibly being "loving" and such do not factor in this. "Loving wives" is probably going to be a pretty terrible category, not because love is bad, but it's almost certain to mean "does whatever the man fantisizes". "Romance" isn't that likely to hold promise either.
Quote:

What in the sweet Budda's heavenly name are you talking about? I was talking about how there's no inherent difference between men and women except for the biological process of conception and birth. How did you get to job discrimination and unfair treatment in strip clubs because of that?

So do you agree there are culturally created differences in men and women today or not?

Also, it wasn't unfair treatment in strip clubs. It's women being excluded from upper management because the male upper management goes to strip clubs for business discussions and don't want to bring women who might object so they exclude women from getting there.
Quote:

Also, screw you for thinking men don't get sexually harassed by women. Men do. I have personally had my butt grabbed in the middle of my school hallway by a Freshman girl when I was a Junior and no one did anything about it when I told the faculty. I also nearly got raped by a girl in my own house when my roommate invited a friend over at 2:00 A.M. who decided to take off her clothes and climb on top of me when I was asleep, injured and exhausted (my roommate told her I was), and she refused to get off of me when I told her to. I literally had to shove her off of me and throw her out of my room. The end result of the story? My roommate said I needed to (and I quote) "Understand that, for a girl, being turned down for sex is really emotionally painful."

So don't tell me that sexual harassment is only done by males to females.

It's not good that happened to you. This kind of thing happens far far more often and more severely to women though, and the reason you got told that is because of how society treats women as inferior in that it says they should be treated like porcelain dolls. Help end patriarchy/misogyny, and you can help end those problems. Otherwise, they will go on forever.
Quote:

I'm sorry. I was mistaken how I phrased that because I thought you could figure out that I was talking about the character that the girl is playing in the porn video. The fictional character. FICTIONAL CHARACTER!

How could you not see that? You quoted a line from me that was in the exact same post that reads:
I hate women's sports leagues because I view them as telling females "You're not as good as men and never will be. Don't try, just have this bone we're throwing you."

Heck, look at what else is in the quote you made where I talk about my taste in porn:
I'm not going to whip or emotionally cripple anyone in real life. Even with sex, I know I can't do that without the other person or people being ok with it.

HOW DO THOSE THINGS SAY I TREAT WOMEN BADLY? I view people as people. I don't care about gender except in scenarios where I'm looking to be romantically involved with someone.

The fact that it's an actor doesn't change anything. You literally said you enjoy and get off to watching the idea of women getting beaten, raped and so on. And I can totally believe that you do. You probably aren't going to whip someone in real life because of the punishment you'll get from it, but there are numerous other things you might do as if women are inferior or to be dominated.
Quote:

So, despite the fact that 75% of the post was points that proved my tastes in porn don't effect my attitude towards people, you chose to ignore them because they were "patent bullshit"?

If it helps any, it's "patent ignorant bullshit".
Quote:

And for all the people complaining that porn degrades women, can you show me the posts you made about how man-on-man porn teaches men who like having sex with men to degrade each other? Can you also show me where you complain how women who watch women-dominating-men porn are being taught to treat men like sex toys and garbage? If you can't, well, let's just say that's ok. I'll be used to it.

Gay male porn doesn't work that way because the actors are men and it is almost entirely viewed by men. The problem with heterosexual porn is that the woman is shown as submissive/weak/an object to be used in comparison to the man. In lesbian porn, it's still mostly made for men to watch and to men's beauty standards and desires for the women involved and has a lot of the same problems as heterosexual porn because of things like that.

Go look for female pov porn. Check out how extremely rare that is compared to male pov porn. I have enough digits to count the videos I can find for free, and that includes half of them being from a site that very much looks like it's catering to men's fetishes, and half the rest only being parts of clips.


Last edited by Kylra on Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1168
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daveshan wrote:
Um... Adyon, that's what that type of porn is called. I'm being honest with you, I wasn't referring to it as a fetish. If you go to the average porn site and look at the categories, the one that has men being whipped, humiliated, hurt, degraded, etc. by women is labelled as "sissy porn." That's why I had it in quotes. You can find women dominating men in "BDSM" categories too, but if you want it in ways that don't involve bondage, it's under "sissy."

Misunderstanding on both our parts.


Actually I was pretty sure it's just called femdom by most things I've ever seen. But I guess it wouldn't be out of the question to call it that, so maybe that was a mis-understanding.

Quote:
And for all the people complaining that porn degrades women, can you show me the posts you made about how man-on-man porn teaches men who like having sex with men to degrade each other? Can you also show me where you complain how women who watch women-dominating-men porn are being taught to treat men like sex toys and garbage? If you can't, well, let's just say that's ok. I'll be used to it.

Pretty much Kylra said everything for this already. Rarely has porn been "nice" and about love making. The underground porn movements now have a lot more amateur porn that simply is couple making love. That should be a lot more mainstream honestly. Realistic couples that portray realistic love making. I just feel like, anything that involves any person dominating anyone else in any way should at least be considered a "fetish".

I think for me, it's hard to even think about it, because honestly any time I saw porn like that, all I could think was that it was so fake looking and thus unappealing. I feel like at the least, there should feel like some chemistry between people. Actors have it often in movies, because they don't have to break the emotional boundary. Most women in porn especially just have these facial ques, etc that let you know they're really not enjoying it or are high on something. It's just so unappealing to me.
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daveshan



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
daveshan wrote:

Also, screw you for thinking men don't get sexually harassed by women. Men do. I have personally had my butt grabbed in the middle of my school hallway by a Freshman girl when I was a Junior and no one did anything about it when I told the faculty. I also nearly got raped by a girl in my own house when my roommate invited a friend over at 2:00 A.M. who decided to take off her clothes and climb on top of me when I was asleep, injured and exhausted (my roommate told her I was), and she refused to get off of me when I told her to. I literally had to shove her off of me and throw her out of my room. The end result of the story? My roommate said I needed to (and I quote) "Understand that, for a girl, being turned down for sex is really emotionally painful."

So don't tell me that sexual harassment is only done by males to females.

It's not good that happened to you.

Thank you.


Kylra wrote:
This kind of thing happens far far more often and more severely to women though, and the reason you got told that is because of how society treats women as inferior in that it says they should be treated like porcelain dolls. Help end patriarchy/misogyny, and you can help end those problems. Otherwise, they will go on forever.


I'm just more in favor of teaching everyone that no means no, that people who can't grasp that are horrible people, and that every person should be given a fair shot at everything and be seen in the same light until that individual gives reason for others to think otherwise.


You know, I really want to end this argument and stop here with this so it finishes on a good note between me and you. I got started in this because I was talking about the comic and then someone made a comment that I took as a personal insult towards my own character and the whole thing spiraled out of control. Internet arguments, am I right? If you want me to respond to everything else, let me know and I will respond to everything else.

Until then, please know that I and many other men and women who I talk to about porn and fantasies know the difference between imagination and reality. The reason I and others don't rape, beat people, degrade them, etc in real life isn't because of punishment, we don't do it because it's not the right thing to do. It hurts them and they don't want it. Are there some horrible people, male and female, who don't know that no means no and the wrong thing is the wrong thing? Yes. But just remember, for every piece of shit out there, there's an innumerably greater amount of pieces of diamond that aren't doing those things.



Adyon wrote:
daveshan wrote:
Um... Adyon, that's what that type of porn is called. I'm being honest with you, I wasn't referring to it as a fetish. If you go to the average porn site and look at the categories, the one that has men being whipped, humiliated, hurt, degraded, etc. by women is labelled as "sissy porn." That's why I had it in quotes. You can find women dominating men in "BDSM" categories too, but if you want it in ways that don't involve bondage, it's under "sissy."

Misunderstanding on both our parts.


Actually I was pretty sure it's just called femdom by most things I've ever seen. But I guess it wouldn't be out of the question to call it that, so maybe that was a mis-understanding.


Cool.

Adyon wrote:
daveshan wrote:
And for all the people complaining that porn degrades women, can you show me the posts you made about how man-on-man porn teaches men who like having sex with men to degrade each other? Can you also show me where you complain how women who watch women-dominating-men porn are being taught to treat men like sex toys and garbage? If you can't, well, let's just say that's ok. I'll be used to it.

Pretty much Kylra said everything for this already. Rarely has porn been "nice" and about love making. The underground porn movements now have a lot more amateur porn that simply is couple making love. That should be a lot more mainstream honestly. Realistic couples that portray realistic love making. I just feel like, anything that involves any person dominating anyone else in any way should at least be considered a "fetish".

I think for me, it's hard to even think about it, because honestly any time I saw porn like that, all I could think was that it was so fake looking and thus unappealing. I feel like at the least, there should feel like some chemistry between people. Actors have it often in movies, because they don't have to break the emotional boundary. Most women in porn especially just have these facial ques, etc that let you know they're really not enjoying it or are high on something. It's just so unappealing to me.


The larger porn video sites I go to are 85-95% amateur. Again, if you ever want the links, just send me a pm. Just, FYI, Rule 34 is in effect on those sites in spades.

Some people can stomach different actors and directors, different genres, and different settings. The important thing is that you can separate fantasy and reality.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daveshan wrote:
What in the sweet Budda's heavenly name are you talking about? I was talking about how there's no inherent difference between men and women except for the biological process of conception and birth.

I don't intend to be rude, but there's no reason to deny our biology. The differences between men and women are more than just their exteriors, due in part to the effects of testosterone and estrogen on the brain (mostly during development, but there are also lifelong effects, for instance in women the number of dendritic spines on their neurons fluctuates during their menstrual cycle). There's nothing wrong with acknowledging our unique differences. It's not a question of, "are we different?" but, "how do we manage our differences?" That's what I like about equality movements. The good ones have no interest in taking your status as a special snowflake from anyone.
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TragicallyUnhip



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: *sigh* Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
So THAT'S where they come from! I always wondered...
TragicallyUnhip wrote:

The point is, where is there a character to actually model GOOD behavior? Where is there someone who isn't either a sexist jerk or a victim raging at the system? It's no longer Monique, who's basically de-sexed herself, it certainly isn't the little revolutionary munchkins, who really, truly are humorless and one-dimensional to the point of - to me - being boring. Who is a character who actually displays what Tat might want to present as the right attitude and behavior and then getting rewarded for it? Is it Criminy? What do our little munchkin feminists think of him? Story? Does he even have any kind of interaction with the Patriarchy? In a very real sense, he's a victim himself, but he's a seeker, not a warrior. He's looking for the intangible story that will fulfill him.

It's all very well to protest the way things are, but I haven't seen anyone in the strip to actively counter the evil patriarchy in a positive way. "Give up your porn" is just simplistic and doesn't look at why it even is a problem. Pulling the plug on the patriarchy's message was cute, but just a stunt, and of course ultimately futile.

Show me a character who demonstrates somehow that you don't need porn. What, for instance, would Buddha say? Or even Jesus? None of the really positive - oriented characters have weighed in on this stuff or been shown to be interacting on that level. It would be very interesting to see Glossy face-to-face with Buddha. What happens when all that unfocused discontent gets a dose of serenity? Or the Dragon? These are, to me, the larger-than-life characters who might provide the gateway to solutions, not just protest.

Main thing is, as a reader I like to be shown, not told.

Monique, Glossy and maybe Criminy to a lesser extent are currently the role models. Monique is someone who has recently "woken up" and is learning how to overcome the problems patriarchy poses for her, Glossy is already learned and trying to help others in addition to herself, Criminy seems like he might currently be placed in the precursor stage to figuring it out. There might be something going down with Lil E's amnesia in the future too.

Also, the strip depicting porn as being a tool to drain cash from men who have bought into the messages patriarchy indoctrinates into men and destroy their sense of empathy towards women while leaving them with nothing of value in return is pretty much the definition of "showing what is bad about porn". The discussion with the stop porn booth was just to show how men are so willing to illogically defend the patriarchal ideology destroying their humanity through avoiding discussing the real problems they have because "emotions are unmanly/womanly and thus bad". And this is really only one of many illogical methods men will use to defend things that hurt them.



I guess all this boils down to is that currently it's just annoying and boring. this is awful to say, but if I had to pay for it, I wouldn't. EVEN THOUGH I highly respect the artist's ability and the calibre of his images and his visual style. But - apart from that, this is just giving me a big case of the yawns.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then don't read it.
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Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daveshan wrote:

I'm just more in favor of teaching everyone that no means no, that people who can't grasp that are horrible people, and that every person should be given a fair shot at everything and be seen in the same light until that individual gives reason for others to think otherwise.


You know, I really want to end this argument and stop here with this so it finishes on a good note between me and you. I got started in this because I was talking about the comic and then someone made a comment that I took as a personal insult towards my own character and the whole thing spiraled out of control. Internet arguments, am I right? If you want me to respond to everything else, let me know and I will respond to everything else.

Until then, please know that I and many other men and women who I talk to about porn and fantasies know the difference between imagination and reality. The reason I and others don't rape, beat people, degrade them, etc in real life isn't because of punishment, we don't do it because it's not the right thing to do. It hurts them and they don't want it. Are there some horrible people, male and female, who don't know that no means no and the wrong thing is the wrong thing? Yes. But just remember, for every piece of shit out there, there's an innumerably greater amount of pieces of diamond that aren't doing those things.

What I'm saying is those things are having a negative effect on how you treat women regardless of your efforts to do otherwise and your denial of the existence of this effect. People can say they are in favor of no means no, and I can believe you actually want that to be the case, but what someone says and how their actions align don't always match. And no, the majority are in the pieces of shit category.
Quote:

The larger porn video sites I go to are 85-95% amateur. Again, if you ever want the links, just send me a pm. Just, FYI, Rule 34 is in effect on those sites in spades.

Some people can stomach different actors and directors, different genres, and different settings. The important thing is that you can separate fantasy and reality.

Amateur stuff is on average better, but it's still mostly tainted with patriarchal influence. You can separate fantasy from reality while still trying to make reality more like your fantasy, consciously or subconsciously. That is the issue here, not whether people can separate the two.
TragicallyUnhip wrote:

I guess all this boils down to is that currently it's just annoying and boring. this is awful to say, but if I had to pay for it, I wouldn't. EVEN THOUGH I highly respect the artist's ability and the calibre of his images and his visual style. But - apart from that, this is just giving me a big case of the yawns.

If it's awful to say, why are you saying it as your opinion? Doesn't that mean you have awful opinions? Maybe you should try having better opinions.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No means no is fine.....but yes is really the only thing that means yes.
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TragicallyUnhip



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Then don't read it.


If it keeps on like this, I probably won't. But this is my honest feedback to a really fine artist who's taken an overt stand on an issue and who is, IMHO, going about it in the wrong way.

But yes, after reading for years I am quite willing to stop reading it and stop pointing my friends to it and linking to it and recommending it, which is the way I have been trying to give back.

"I gave up the Church out of boredom, I can do as much for you." to quote William Goldman's Eleanor of Aquitaine.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10660
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
No means no is fine.....but yes is really the only thing that means yes.

This is why a lot of guys love girls that take initiative.
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