Sinfest

[CTrees]

More interesting food for thought: was Justice Roberts actually writing a conservative opinion, that just happened to have a liberal result?

Kinda hits the "traitor!" bit coming from Repubs, with the underlying theme that Roberts' primary loyalty is to the rule of law. Also hits on the "ruling on a technicality" issue.
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“Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation”
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.

[Yinello]

In my country, all hospitals are government property supported by our taxes. So whether you're rich or not, you will get the same type of care. There are of course care specialists which are expensive but good. The great thing about this is that if a poor person has a good reason to go to him (rare disease or whatnot), then he will receive a certain amount of money from our government for it.

We also have a big comittee devoted to having the best kind of medical quality in all our hospitals (because mistakes still get made and sometimes for no reason). The hospitals themselves compete for the best reputation because it means more people go to them and the government rewards them for that.

One of the complaints some people in my country have is that they don't like paying for others, especially when they themselves never need medical care. But I've been to Africa. I've seen some terrible things. I'd rather pay and have someone benefit from my money than having to watch a mutilated child on the street beg for money.

I'll go back to my corner now before I spout more Dutch things that may or may not be true when our goverment is re-elected in a few months.
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They say if you flap your arms fast enough, you will fly.

True facts.

[Samsally]

[mouse]

they miss #2 either because they are lazy, or they don't want to admit how close they really are to the edge. unless you are sitting on a huge wad of cash, one emergency situation can send you deeply into debt. and just about anyone can lose their job, even if they are hard-working - just ask all the people who got thrown out of work when the company they worked for went bankrupt, or shut down, or moved operations to another country. you don't want to look too close at those lazy beggars, you might see someone who looks a lot like you.

that's the thing that really annoys me. these people are _so_ sure that nothing bad can happen to them or theirs, that they are just completely different from the all the poor unemployed folk, they are just that special. and they aren't. and it just makes sense to build a good safety net, because you never know when you might need one.

[Him]

All of the parts? Because "socialist Obamacare"-scare aside there are many legit problems with the ACA: http://firedoglake.com/fdl-fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/
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'[Obama] is like a dog, running around biting peaceful people for no reason.' - Cristi Wang

[CTrees]

That's not exactly an unbiased link, there... a quick scan shows several blatant "myth: _____. Fact: something unrelated" strawmen
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“Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation”
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.

[Arc Tempest]

Wait, are you suggesting that Him is using shit sources to get preachy about Youessian politics?

Well I never!
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The older I get, the more certain I become of one thing. True and abiding cynicism is simply a form of cowardice.

[CTrees]

Point.
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“Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation”
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.

[Monkey Mcdermott]

[Him]

[Arc Tempest]

I have no interest in reading anything you link or debating anything with you Him, you've proven time and again that it's a fool's errand. I was simply amused by CTrees reaction.
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The older I get, the more certain I become of one thing. True and abiding cynicism is simply a form of cowardice.

[Willem]

[Arc Tempest]

In all fairness, I don't think any amount of optimism or vertebrae could have saved it. From day one the Occupy movement was co-opted by a million fringe groups with a million (often contradictory) objectives and ideals. Crazy Joe the Gold Cultist and Conspiracy Theory Jim the Trustifarian both had exactly the same claim to the movement as Sane Sally the Reformist.

The logistics, focus, and clarity of purpose that were required for Occupy to affect any real change simply never developed, and in fact they were seen as anathema by many people in the movement because having it reeked too much of "politics as usual."
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The older I get, the more certain I become of one thing. True and abiding cynicism is simply a form of cowardice.

[Willem]

But that's just the type of cynicism I was talking about. It was seen as politics as usual. It was immediately depicted as ineffectual, scattered, unfocused and weak. You could literally see this happen. Now, movements like this thrive on the amount of mass they can attain. They need to attract large crowds or they die. They need hundreds of thousand of people to drown out the crazies and to have an impact. That's the kind of optimism that's needed. First you have to think that it might work - so ditching the cynicism - and then you have to actually join in. But people didn't - or they didn't stick it out - because it was 'ineffectual, scattered, unfocused and weak'. And because they didn't, this became reality. That's the power of ideas for you.

But as I said, it's also the liberal spinelessness that caused its downfall. Because instead of responding to these depictions and asserting itself, OWS bent backwards to present itself as 'acceptable'. It did its best to avoid being called 'radical' or 'socialist' or whatever word the media came up with next. They weren't going to rock the boat too much, honest, guv'. But that's a weakness, right there. That's playing a loser's game. You can't win if you play by 'their' rules. I'm not saying that they should've gone straight to armed insurrection or something like that, but they needed a far more aggressive, a far more daring approach. They needed to challenge the media narrative aimed against them and challenge the media - and society - itself. But they didn't, so that's where we are now.
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attitude of a street punk, only cutting selected words out of context to get onself excuse to let one's dirty mouth loose

[WheelsOfConfusion]