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2012-07-03 Relapse
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Motorcycle



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, if your SO irl told you they had a stabby episode, you'd prolly get REALLY REALLY worried. But Crim doesn't get scared & all we think of is how sorry we feel for her.
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Dawn



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Welcome to Sinfest Dawn. ;P

Also

D'AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW~


<3 Been reading since 2008 I believe, or earlier. I had to grow up a bit before I dared to post on the forums on certain matters.

Loved the comic then, still do now. Glad to see Tat is not afraid to bring up highly controversial topics and poke fun at the same time lol.

Love ya Tat <3

Ronald wrote:
Random Wanderer wrote:
Have courage, Fyoosh. You don't have to be what all those who-knows-how-many years of conditioning as a devilgirl would make you.


Well, she doesn't have to NOT be, either. It's not as if there's no middle ground whatsoever. It's up to her.

Crim and Fuchsia have a hug/kiss/snuggle love, the epitome of, I guess, the secular version of supposed ideal that "true love waits" until after marriage. OSLT.

True Love Waits
Meaningless Sex Now!


Eh, only if they both want it. Cuddles and snuggles are better.


Last edited by Dawn on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SA_Penguin



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 231
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather see Fyush have a stabby episode than ANY strip with the Patriarchy theme.

The feminists may call me a recalcitrant lost cause. I prefer to consider myself a romantic, who just likes the Criminy / Fuschia story arc.
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Mizike



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 5133
Location: Iowa City

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd call you a Kiwi.
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Demetirus



Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Where I'm not supposed to be.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I love the Fyoosh and Crim stories. I like watching them grow together.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"To thy own self be true."

I keep waiting for Fyoosh to turn into something other than a devil girl, but she doesn't. I think its clear (especially after we saw her as a child) that she IS a devil girl. That is her nature; there's not a sweet innocent school girl under her (when Jesus reverse-boffed her it must have been just that, a reverse-boffing).

She is evil, in her heart and in her soul.

She will need to change her very nature to escape that (I'd get Buddha to do it), but is she willing to do that for Crim? Would Crim even want her to do that? This would not be a superficial change, but a deep seeded deep rooted one. Until then

"To thy own self be true."
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Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I keep waiting for Fyoosh to turn into something other than a devil girl, but she doesn't. I think its clear (especially after we saw her as a child) that she IS a devil girl. That is her nature; there's not a sweet innocent school girl under her (when Jesus reverse-boffed her it must have been just that, a reverse-boffing).

It's pretty obvious that there's a "biology is not destiny" feminism point somewhere in Fuchsia's story. I predict she'll always stay a devil physically, but that doesn't necessitate that she be a negative stereotype of "devil girl" like she was previously forced to perform.

It's kind of "meh" that it's predicated on Jesus's deal which kind of waters it down because of both the Male Savior and also making it something that was her biology previously, but I would guess Tatsuya just though it was close enough to make the point, and that this is a retcon of a minor plot-point in favor of some deeper storytelling.
Quote:
She is evil, in her heart and in her soul.

How do you know? Why are you assuming this about devil women? I know what reasoning you're using, but why start off with pigeonholing all devil people into 2-dimensional beings you know everything about like this? Perhaps they struggle against it, invisibly, every day.
Quote:
She will need to change her very nature to escape that (I'd get Buddha to do it), but is she willing to do that for Crim? Would Crim even want her to do that? This would not be a superficial change, but a deep seeded deep rooted one. Until then

You left out the more obvious "for herself".
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
You left out the more obvious "for herself".
Right, if I didn't it would be circle reasoning. Her "self" is what is being discussed.

She can't change her "self" for "herself." It would be one aspect of her personally fighting the other, but both are "her."
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daveshan



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorcycle wrote:
You know, if your SO irl told you they had a stabby episode, you'd prolly get REALLY REALLY worried. But Crim doesn't get scared & all we think of is how sorry we feel for her.


That's actually a good point. Crim, be careful. Don't date crazy.
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Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
She can't change her "self" for "herself." It would be one aspect of her personally fighting the other, but both are "her."

There are things you can not like about yourself, want to change, and then work towards that change. That is an option. That counts as "changing herself for herself" since that is what she wants.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
There are things you can not like about yourself, want to change, and then work towards that change. That is an option. That counts as "changing herself for herself" since that is what she wants.
But, you aren't changing them for "yourself," not in the purest sense of the term.
(but at this point we might be just arguing semantics)
Regardless, I think its clear -in this case- that Crim is her main motivation in this endeavor.

I did not feel it was strictly correct to include "herself" in my post and -at any rate- I don't feel the good aspect of her 'self' is something she is nurturing for its own sake. She is becoming good not just to become good, but for Crim.

However, if you feel she is becoming good as an end unto itself, then I guess you could say she is doing it for "herself." Sure.
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Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
I don't feel the good aspect of her being is something she is nurturing for its own sake. She is becoming good not just to become good, but for Crim.

This is pretty clearly false or else she wouldn't be emotionally wounded on her own from her "stabby episode". Also, Crim accepts even the stabby parts, so why would she need to change on his behalf on that?
Quote:
However, if you feel she is becoming good as an end unto itself and for no other reason, than I I guess you could say she is doing it for "herself." Sure.

It's because she wants to. There's a theme in Existentialism about "authenticity", or making the choices you choose rather than letting your "choices" just happen. Most people just go by, not really examining why they make the "choices" they do and just letting them sort of happen to themselves. In the end though, even that reason why is something you have arbitrarily chosen for no real reason at all, knowingly or not. Usually not. Why not knowingly make that ultimately arbitrary choice of "Why?" that is devoid of any real meaning yourself rather than go with what you have been taught to do and let everyone else drive your own life?
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3247

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demetirus wrote:
Ah, I love the Fyoosh and Crim stories. I like watching them grow together.


I'd like it even better if Tat wasn't totally ignoring the question of whether or not Fuchsia got the job in the coffee shop which she applied for. We'll never know one way or the other unless he tells us.

After all, the strip doesn't follow Fuchsia around 24/7, any more than it follows any other character 24/7. We have no way of knowing what sort of wacky hijinks any of them get into when we're not looking.

Heck, for all we know, Fuchsia owns the coffee shop by now. Unlikely, yes, but still.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, I'd prefer for the strip to focus on Mint, Lime, and other newer Devil Girls.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1019

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I personally see it, Crim stimulated her to be a better person by showing her that she COULD be a better person, that there was another way for her.

Although he didn't do so by being a male or a love interest really, that is completely secondary to the fact that he is a freaking nice guy, emotionally supportive and willing to help.

...I think the Devil called him a Champion for the forces of Good back when he didn't know what was changing Fuchsia. Can't find the comic for exact wording, but he was right.



However, Crim was only a detonator here. He made Fuchsia willing to change, not only for him, but because that is how she, herself, felt, and is helping her through that.

I really love this storyline. It is too sweet to ever dislike.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
This is pretty clearly false or else she wouldn't be emotionally wounded on her own from her "stabby episode". Also, Crim accepts even the stabby parts, so why would she need to change on his behalf on that?
Because her good self knows it's wrong.
Another way of looking at it would be she knows Crim knows it's wrong, and she would tell him about it because she knows he would want her to tell him about it.

But, it is hard to know what is going on in someone's head, so I'll not argue that one interpretation is "more right" than the other.

Kylra wrote:

It's because she wants to.
Yes, but which aspect of her self would want her whole self to be more righteous? I would argue only the good aspect of her self would want that. Thus, if she is indeed doing it for her own self, then she is becoming more virtuous for the good aspect of her self. As such, her good aspect would be perpetuating itself for no other reason then to perpetuate itself.

Which is about the time the whole "circular reasoning" bit comes in, see below.


Kylra wrote:
There's a theme in Existentialism about "authenticity", or making the choices you choose rather than letting your "choices" just happen. Most people just go by, not really examining why they make the "choices" they do and just letting them sort of happen to themselves. In the end though, even that reason why is something you have arbitrarily chosen for no real reason at all, knowingly or not. Usually not. Why not knowingly make that ultimately arbitrary choice of "Why?" that is devoid of any real meaning yourself rather than go with what you have been taught to do and let everyone else drive your own life?
Why? Why not.
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