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(07/21/12) Asked and Answered
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sisterhood should go help Criminy and Fuchsia instead of whatever they're doing now.

The basic problem with most movements is they just criticize and don't give forth a new alternative. Pointing out a problem is easy, fixing one is hard. The Sisterhood -when it first started- seemed to be in the pointing out problems business, not in the fixing problems business. Yet, should women simply NOT be sexy and NOT be housewives? We've seen a lot of comics abut how women should NOT act if they want to be free of gender stereotypes, but not many comics one how they SHOULD act. I don't feel like everyone simply being gender neutral is the answer, but then I've always been against uniformity. The Sisterhood does seem to be moving to the fixing problem business, but it's been a long time coming.
With Criminy and Fuchsia you have exactly the kind of thing they should be promoting. A devilgirl turning away from the devil and trying to have a loving and equal relation with someone. And yet, she is having trouble adapting and the sisterhood is nowhere to be found. Is their plan simply to pull devilgirls out of Satan's service, given them some cookies, and tell them 'good luck' without any guidance in their new life?
I sincerely hope not.


"Anti-something movements by themselves will fail. Positive assertions are necessary." - Michael Shermer
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Flavius Maximus



Joined: 07 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Flavius Maximus wrote:
I try to change underwear at least once a week
but maybe that isn't what you are talking about
The first line was an attempt at humor (not a true statement -- really) Wink

Wait... so you DON'T change your underwear at least once a week? Shocked


hahaha Laughing

I change every time my wife reminds me.

And that is probably what Tat is talking about??? Wink
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
We've seen a lot of comics abut how women should NOT act if they want to be free of gender stereotypes,


It's not about how they SHOULDN'T act, more like how they shouldn't be EXPECTED to act.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhett and Link say that you can wear underwear for a couple of days, then turn them inside out and get a couple more days out of them, but then you have to wash them. Jeans, on the other hand, they claim you can wear forever... but you should never wear them inside out.
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KDX



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, someone said "reasonable" people win in the reasonable vs. unreasonable.

They don't and here's WHY.

The unreasonable person REFUSES conversation, REFUSES a calm rational discussion of a topic. The most prominent example is someone who decides to beat your face in with a baseball bat because of who you ARE. You can have the most logical, reasonable, tolerant, understanding and decent arguments ready for counterpoint.

IF IT WAS A DISCUSSION. It's not they're hitting you with a baseball bat and they don't want to listen. Words and decency will not help you. You have to pick up a baseball bat and be just as unreasonable until someone stops.

Now, I have expressed that point in physical terms. But it's not limited to physical terms.

I gave a perfectly reasonable argument. But, people have DECIDED to scorn, mock, and deride simply because it doesn't ad-hear to their narrow viewpoint on things.

I went out of my way to give credence to the other side's arguments, yet they refuse to offer the same courtesy? Then there's no point. No point because the other side has decided to be unreasonable, and I'm not willing to track them down and hit them with a baseball bat till they come to their senses.

Not over an internet argument, not over their petty stupidity, and self made choice to invalidate ALL arguments other than theirs or those that agree with them 100%. That's their choice, it's not my fault, and all they have won is continued ignorance.

They can have it.
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Willem



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i decided that pretty much 100% of this subforum's population is Stupid As Hell and not worthy of my fearsome dancing toad discussion tactics, so i just laugh at them

sorry about your horrible opinions, kdx. i'm sure you'll find another forum where people care about them. i suggest forums.stupidpeople.com/dicks
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Willem



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why won't people listen to my horrible opinions plastered over pages upon pages of horrible posts???? i used the proper format and talked about fallacies and all that, they almost look not-repulsive!! why won't people debate me while i pretend to know what i'm talking about? are they just being mean? do they hate men?????????
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Willem



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could some of you dude-bros pat me on the back all man-like and stuff? i think that if we stick together in the face of this feminazism, we'll turn out on top
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
It's not about how they SHOULDN'T act, more like how they shouldn't be EXPECTED to act.
That's identifying a problem.
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Miss Magenta



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
That's identifying a problem.


Yeah, and that's the first step to fixing a problem. Duh.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And -usually- also the easiest as well as -often- the least useful.
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Zhuinden



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDX wrote:
*Sighs* Really? Must we do this again?

Alright.

1. Crim is a "herbivore" male. He IS, he takes a passive, not confrontational approach unless he has to do otherwise.

2. Personally I AGREE with this approach. Namely because it is the appropriate methodology for those who lack physical strength.


Actually, not just because he lacks physical strength, but also because any at least remotely intelligent human being should not resort to fist fights. But that is just my own personal opinion on this matter.

Quote:

3. However! It can NOT solve all problems. As it is said, in an argument between a reasonable man and an unreasonable one, the unreasonable one will ALWAYS win. That's why sometimes the only solution is to beat the bad guy into the dirt.

Which is why it is sad that the existence of people who actually resort to this is a scar upon humanity as a whole. If these irrational idiots did not exist, the world would be a better place.
This is also my personal opinion, as I have no clue what this has to do with the topic at hand, which is the destructive nature of gender roles, unfounded expectations towards the opposing genders, and gender stereotypes.
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4. Keeping all of this in mind. The objection that is to be made is that while feminism criticizes males for expecting females to be a certain way, they revel in the hypocrisy of expecting the exact same thing.

In that comic about the Sisterhood and Seymour, this does apply. However, the problem with Seymour is that he is also attempting to enforce a 'role' on all females, even without their consent of any kind. He believes what he says is 'the truth', and nothing else is correct. Anyone to object is wrong.
And thus, he would force all women to submit to a role against their own will. That is why the Sisterhood has a problem with him.

Especially considering how sexist the Bible is, actually.
Wives having to serve their husbands and all the like.

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5. The example of this being used is the championing of the "herbivore," "effeminate," or "sensitive" male personality, in exclusivity. In short, they will only tolerate a Crim like male, and are completely intolerant of a strong-willed male persona.


No they don't "champion" him at all. The reason why they tolerate him is because he doesn't force bullsh-t on other people without their consent whatsoever.
Although he truly does not really seem to be intrigued by, or driven by sexuality. But neither is Fuchsia, yet they seem to relate well.
This is a perfect example of how a starting relationship ~ the development of connection should work. Tatsuya has provided an image meant to be followed, or at least a positive alternative.


...If you ask me, it is a great alternative to today's prominent way of attempting to find a mate, which is 'dating'. It technically implies that you meet some random person, waltz into situations that are not in any way part of every day life, and depending on how they handle being together with a complete stranger at first, via a few discussions they either end up hand-in-hand (in bed, sometimes) or not.
But this is an insufficient means of attempting to get to know someone, as you never truly see how they behave in real situations, or at least how they talk to other people when they aren't really trying to show their best.
Which is why many people end up in unhealthy relationships, I think.

Quote:

6. Hypocrisy is NOT invalidation of an argument. Yes, many men are assholes, and yes, it does stem a great deal from testosterone.

Blaming testosterone and hormonal functionality as in "biological reasons" are merely rationalizations and excuses for inability to think and assess social situations like a decent human being.
Simply put, some male humans are assholes merely because this is something they learned, and don't want to change. It's like a bad habit.

Quote:

8. This strip is a prime example, given that all the references, are to negative male qualities.
-Liberty is frustrated with Sam's temptations and infidelities.
-Lil 'nique finds her agitation is the sometimes "speak first, think never" behavior exhibited by many men.
-Glossy is apparently sexism and stereotypes.
-Monique for her part is a personal battle of identity in a world with patriarchal undertones of a widespread nature.

It is not necessarily a negative male quality. It is a reflection of error of which many males suffer, meaning just because they're male, they are not destined to have these negative qualities. However, it is common among them.
And that is why Tat shows these images all combined together - to show that if you are also one of those who end up doing at least one of these, you should realize your mistake.

The point is, not all "men" do these. But many guys really do, and they're oblivious to it.

Quote:

9. Again this are not false or invalid arguments. However, they are simply the continuation of a long line of negativity focused exclusively on men.

10. Men do not like being "piled on" any more than women do, and it's not any more fair just because the arguments are valid, or that the subjects are men.

And this is a perfect example of it in your case.
You think about "men" and "women" as entities, groups and typically sections you can generalize upon. You forget that each and every human is an individual, and thus cannot be generalized like this, especially based upon their reproductionary organs - as that is pretty much all that gender defines, and nothing else.

Quote:

Now that I have succinctly explained the train of logical thought, as well as the specific objections to the current arc, can there be some forum of damn arbitration? A realization that these objections are ALSO valid and should be recognized with the validity they deserve? Cause honestly the forum was never like this till the START of this lopsided arc, and I for one with my tiny, singular, opinion, am sick of it.
The rabid hostility is for people immature than we should be.


The problem is that many males are too obsessed with sexuality, and this is greatly a result of social expectations regarding how you are meant to "score with as many women as possible", "you must lose your virginity to prove that you are worthy of being called a man", and in general "be a Man".


The sad part is that NO ONE REALLY CARES about whether you're acting like a "man" / "woman" or not. Or at least the people who do, shouldn't. Many of these expectations stem from the gender roles that actually serve no real purpose, or at least provide a guideline that is inefficient in various cases. It's a standard that is not meant to be followed.

And this is what we should realize: thinking of our fellow female humans as "women" and our fellow male humans as "men" simplifies down their individualities, and most importantly, leaves us blind to their real characteristics. As using stereotypes - consciously or unconsciously - we create a facade through which we will never understand each other.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to see here...
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep going
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

almost there
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