welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ought Comedians Tell Rape jokes?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 13, 14, 15  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  

There are some lines Comedians ought not cross.
Of course.
43%
 43%  [ 19 ]
No, nothing is sacred.
56%
 56%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 44

Author Message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2782
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The freedom of speech argument is bullshit in this case. You don't get the right to defend that you're an asshole who is purposely seeking to harm someone.

If I know there are people out there who could be triggered by what I could say and I say it anyway because I value my shitty enjoyment more than their mental wellfare then I am an asshole.
_________________
Help. Help, my eyes are stuck from rolling so hard. Help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cixelsyD



Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 1360

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do black guys always cry after sex?

Because of the mace.


Rape joke that is also racist! Seemed topical.
_________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2782
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You forgot Judaism and handicapped kids. No cookie.
_________________
Help. Help, my eyes are stuck from rolling so hard. Help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
The freedom of speech argument is bullshit in this case. You don't get the right to defend that you're an asshole who is purposely seeking to harm someone.

I think you're misreading me, although I can see where you could get that interpretation. Let me phrase it a little differently:

What is the best response to someone advocating violence and hatred ("silliness")?

Is it to censor that person, so that his views cannot be heard? That can be effective, but, bear in mind that such censorship carries with it the potential to also silence any who would speak out against actual wrongs committed by the censoring body.

Or, is the better answer to mock the voice of hatred, so that no-one takes it seriously? Sure, such mockery may make me appear to be an asshole, but that's a risk anyone who expresses an opinion must take. At least in the world where the advocate of hatred and his mocker are both free to express their views, everyone can take that same risk without fear of oppression for doing so.
_________________
I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to use your free speech to be offensive, don't be surprised when public opinion turns against you. Don't be surprised that when it's brought out into the general public there are social and financial consequences to it. And don't be surprised when people begin to view you as an asshole and don't want to be around you.

The only thing worse than shitty jokes about horrible subject matter is when people get butthurt that people get offended by their shitty jokes about horrible subject matter and don't want anything further to do with them.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10807
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time we talk about speech we have to reiterate that saying someone ought not do something isn't the same as saying we should ban them from saying it, and saying that you are free to speak doesn't mean we can't hold you responsible in some fashion for what you say. Or, to be trite, having the right to do something doesn't make it right.

I'm on my phone, so I can't find the quote from earlier in this thread, but in essence it was that making jokes about the strong is courage and making jokes about the powerless is just cruel.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3366
Location: My own little world...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to think I'm invisible here.
_________________
I'm doing the twitter thing; you should stalk/follow me: http://twitter.com/sillygurlroo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17309
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nono - you reactivated the discussion, so people noticed. some of the responses are a bit oblique.

i'm starting to get riled up by the "but freespeech!" defense, because the only right the constitution gives you is that _congress_ can't make a law stopping you. someone who owns a club or a television stations certainly _can_ limit what you say (george carlin's 7 words still can't be said on anything outside of premium cable). and, as dogen has pointed out, it certainly doesn't mean we can't object to what you say. nor that we can't deny you a free platform to say whatever you want.

so yeah - daniel tosh has the right to make any sort of disgusting joke he wants. that doesn't mean i have to sit still for him taking up space on the television airways, or can't object if the local comedy club owner decides to hire him. because i also have the right to free speech.

right now, tosh gets those things because comedy central and the club owner figure they will make money off of him. and we are certainly allowed to try to change their minds about that.

maybe i am a goodie two-shoes, but i get so tired of nastiness. of people saying cruel things because other people are cruel enough to laugh at them. i don't see where that benefits the world, and i think it should be discouraged. i'm not saying outlawed - i'm saying discouraged. as in, comedians should be discouraged from getting laughs out of making fun of other people's pain. laughing at ourselves is one thing - laughing at other people is another.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
so yeah - daniel tosh has the right to make any sort of disgusting joke he wants. that doesn't mean i have to sit still for him taking up space on the television airways, or can't object if the local comedy club owner decides to hire him. because i also have the right to free speech.

Exactly! And using that right to point out that Tosh is nothing but a waste of time and bandwidth is an excellent use of that right. But, saying that he shouldn't be allowed to be such a waste? That he "ought not" to waste time and space with his charade of being a comedian? That's when I begin hearing "censorship" in the conversation, whether that's what is intended or not.

Maybe that's just me being a little hyper-sensitive on the subject, though. Don't let me tell you what opinions to hold; that's just as bad as letting me say who can express what opinions.
_________________
I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17309
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

censorship, at least in the u.s., is really weird. you can blow up huge numbers of people, and that's ok, but you can't say 'fuck' (or do it, either), unless you are labeled 'adult entertainment'. i don't want congress setting down hard and fast laws on what language you can use where, or even whether or not you can make a movie that depicts the hero mowing down people with a machine gun. but i tend to think that it hardens a kid more to see people being killed in large numbers than to hear the occasional swear word, or even to see a bit of naked flesh.

i haven't really followed the 'die hard' movies, but it seems to me (from the trailers i've seen of the latest one) that the level of violence has been jacked up over time (surely someone has done some sort of study?). that sort of thing, i think, is Not Good. i see no benefit in blowing up a fleet of cars, just to give the audience an adrenal rush (or whatever they get from it).

someone or other on TCM said something the other day about old movies - something like "we didn't have the technology to blow so much stuff up, so we had to tell good stories". do we really need the violence and the meanness to tell good stories?

i guess hbo has the right idea - they tell you (before the show) that they are warning about language, sex, violence, "mature content". maybe we should have similar ratings on everything...including 'pathetic immature humor' and 'humor based on hurting others'. maybe even 'dehumanizes on the basis of sex/race/religion'. then you would be able to make a clear choice.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17309
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the other hand, seems that the guy who started the crusade against comic books for corrupting youth um....sorta made shit up.. so maybe we don't need to protect the children.

but i kinda want some protection myself, you know? for the sake of my eardrums, if nothing else.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that idea: "Rated 'lame,' for sophomoric humor!" "The national content advisory board hereby warns the viewer that this warning contains more intellectual stimulation than the entire rest of the movie."

..."May contain nuts." (with apologies to Sir Terry Pratchett)
_________________
I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trustedfaith wrote:

Not to mention that you are fair game to any comedian once you heckle them at their shows. It is so unbelievably rude to talk, shout, or yell out to them while they are performing. This is also common knowledge. If you decide that you want to do this -- you deserve anything and everything that comedian says to you. You are interupting a performance and you wouldn't dare think to do this at a broadway show. A comedy show is no different. You are being disrespectful not only to the comedian but to everyone around you that paid for that show.


I dunno. I agree with this and then I think: "well what if it was some really, really racist shit? Like slavery-era racism?"

Because I don't really care if I'm being disrespectful to racists.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Canopus



Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trusted: You cover subject matter succinctly and leave room for open discussion. Even if they don't respond directly, it's apparent people agree with your points and channel them, myself included. I actually was going to post something similar to yours for the jihadi convo in the other thread. This applies to my thoughts about Mouse as well.

So don't worry, be happy Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10807
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Exactly! And using that right to point out that Tosh is nothing but a waste of time and bandwidth is an excellent use of that right. But, saying that he shouldn't be allowed to be such a waste? That he "ought not" to waste time and space with his charade of being a comedian? That's when I begin hearing "censorship" in the conversation, whether that's what is intended or not.

Maybe that's just me being a little hyper-sensitive on the subject, though. Don't let me tell you what opinions to hold; that's just as bad as letting me say who can express what opinions.

Those are not the same thing. You ought not cheat on your wife, but you are allowed. You ought not swear in church, but no one puts you in jail for it. Ought is a moral position. Which is why I find discussions of free speech so tedious, because almost no one wants to make laws barring your right to say stupid shit, and yet every conversation has to first cover the "OMG you can't silence my free speech!" bullshit. It's a canard. A ruse. It avoids sticky questions that cover the grey areas of how one uses their speech in favor of the ridiculously obvious question of whether free speech is good or not.

No offense to your tedious rehashing of the obvious position that free speech is better than oppressed speech. Very Happy
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 13, 14, 15  Next
Page 7 of 15

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group