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2012-07-31: Third Wave Feminism 2
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Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a split second, I think I had dyslexia when I read : "Ham pons". Is that the brand that Sara Piglin uses? Then I read it again and the horror was realized when I read "Porn Harms".

I feel so bad for those lonely nerds who are now being told that watching fan-made straight rule 34 of their 2d Waifu is now a sin. Which makes me wonder how society will be able to draw ever again if all forms of a loving caress against paper is a bad loving caress.
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joandark



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee777 wrote:
I feel so bad for those lonely nerds who are now being told that watching fan-made straight rule 34 of their 2d Waifu is now a sin. Which makes me wonder how society will be able to draw ever again if all forms of a loving caress against paper is a bad loving caress.


I don't think Tat has addressed hentai or rule34 yet. From my understanding, normal porn is seen as exploitative because women can be forced into it by economic circumstances, just like prostitution, or larceny. With drawn porn, you have a theoretical credits page, the end of which reading "no women were violated in the making of this smut." So I would imagine that that would be more morally acceptable, though still "creepy."

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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not an argument, just a thought:

joandark wrote:
With drawn porn, you have a theoretical credits page, the end of which reading "no women were violated in the making of this smut." So I would imagine that that would be more morally acceptable, though still "creepy."


But that could lead to another theoretical credits page: "no children were violated in the making of this smut." Which is one of the things that makes even drawn/photo-manipulated porn such a potentially sensitive topic.

===

The Sisterhood themselves seem to mostly be little girls (there was that one adult woman who reported to Glossy that one time) so, really, the very concept of a little girl like Curly knowing enough about porn to engage in discourse on the topic is a fine kettle of worms right there. Most readers would probably think it ridiculous to "worry" about the "innocence" of a little girl who does not exist, but if it's "okay" to depict a child as being knowledgeable about porn, then...

Just something to think about, I guess. Or not.

Really, I'm still waiting for a Sunday strip that gives porn the sort of treatment that this strip http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3708 gave "those nutty Japanese" genres.

Maybe Tat's next WTH tangent will be a visit to Tentacle Butt Samurai High School, but probably not.
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee777 wrote:
I feel so bad for those lonely nerds who are now being told that watching fan-made straight rule 34 of their 2d Waifu is now a sin.


Even if it harms, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a sin...
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Holocauxt



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee777 wrote:
I feel so bad for those lonely nerds who are now being told that watching fan-made straight rule 34 of their 2d Waifu is now a sin. Which makes me wonder how society will be able to draw ever again if all forms of a loving caress against paper is a bad loving caress.


> Fapping to your waifu
> 2012


Ishigerumiyamoto.jpg.tiff.png
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joandark



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
The Sisterhood themselves seem to mostly be little girls (there was that one adult woman who reported to Glossy that one time) so, really, the very concept of a little girl like Curly knowing enough about porn to engage in discourse on the topic is a fine kettle of worms right there. Most readers would probably think it ridiculous to "worry" about the "innocence" of a little girl who does not exist, but if it's "okay" to depict a child as being knowledgeable about porn, then...

Just something to think about, I guess. Or not.


Well, Slick has always been depicted as a child, and he watches porn. But then, it's always had sort of a symbolic meaning, what with him being utterly immature and whatnot. I'm not sure why Tat would depict the sisterhood as little girls, if not only because they were meant to be covert when first introduced.

No one suspects the innocence little girl of upsetting the social order. But now that they operate openly, with chain saws no less, I reckon they're just set with their original character design for nostalgias sake.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Adyon wrote:
What word, foil? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature) *edit* It does NOT want to include that last section within the Parentheses in the url no matter what I do...so you'll have to copy it if you want to follow that link. LOL
Yeah, I've tried to find a work around for that wiki problem myself.

I'm not sure I like either "foil" or "perfect."

"Foil"
I don't think Squig is a foil to her because we are learning about HIM, not her; the sister has not said more than a few words this whole time. He is not flushing out her character. This exchange has not even told us what wave the Sister is. It's implied that she is probably thirdwave, but certainly we have gotten no confirmation of that from her. She is just sitting there as implacable as ever, correcting his obvious mistakes with stoic resolution. I am learning nothing about her.

"Perfect"
Squig is -at his heart- a strawman. Yes, I know, some real people out there are exactly like him. But, he is as much a cardboard cut out as a Fundie is of religion. Don't get me wrong, I love him to death, but it's simply not fair to have him propped up as some kind of representative of anything. Simply point, he is stupid. Additionally -for whatever reason- he WANTS to change. Why does he keep coming back and trying to convince this stern women he is good? Why not simply write her off as some crazy and move on. I don't go around trying to win the approval of every street preacher I meet, that's for sure. He is genuinely TRYING in these comics to care. I can't even see the group he is a meant to represent doing that.

I think he is a foil, just not...a good one. In this sense he's a foil for us to learn just a tidbit more about her, as part of the thing Tat seems to love about the Sisterhood is the mysteriousness of their motives. But you're right that we don't really learn much yet. But we still might. I feel like he's becoming her foil, at least maybe we'll see if she is. A bunch of people claimed that "cool mysteriousness" was "high superiority" from them, that Tat was saying they were unquestionably "right", but I think it's all about the mystery of the organization. In that, I think that as per your point about "perfect", they too just like any character could be the "strawman" for feminism if you consider Squig a strawman. They aren't set up to be outright sympathetic or connected in reality. They're not even named yet, and I think it's intended to make them more of a "mysterious plot person...what're they doing? What are they thinking?...oooooo". Ahem. Anyway, personally that's how I read what Tat has been doing. If he were trying to make them infallible, he'd have wanted to approach them differently. His views on feminism come through either way, but I don't think he wrote the characters that way.

Ronald wrote:
But that could lead to another theoretical credits page: "no children were violated in the making of this smut." Which is one of the things that makes even drawn/photo-manipulated porn such a potentially sensitive topic.

Technically in the art you're talking about, if we look to Japan, there already seems to be plenty of that kind of stuff with children characters. Wink I don't know how I feel about it honestly. I can see a lot of problems in actually saying anything against porn with children in the art sense, as there's no way to regulate it really. It's simply impossible to police unless you strip freedom from the internet entirely, which obviously most would oppose. Wink

I don't know if there's a way to fix that issue, as people who are into children, really are damaged and from almost everything I've ever seen, can't be "cured" of the desire. Most of the time, all we can do is keep people like that in check from doing anything. Statistically there's more than we know about, as the majority of them never touch a child. Their desires stay in their mind, or maybe such as this case, in art. It's a sad truth of our world, that things like that exist without us being able to control them. And other than punishing people for acting on their urges, it's hard for me to think of a way to eradicate those kind of thoughts, at least from those who truly have a deep-seated mental issue with it.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:

I think he is a foil, just not...a good one. In this sense he's a foil for us to learn just a tidbit more about her, as part of the thing Tat seems to love about the Sisterhood is the mysteriousness of their motives. But you're right that we don't really learn much yet. But we still might. I feel like he's becoming her foil, at least maybe we'll see if she is.
She is acting as a foil for him. I am learning more about Squig in these comics, not the Sisterhood.

Adyon wrote:
In that, I think that as per your point about "perfect", they too just like any character could be the "strawman" for feminism if you consider Squig a strawman. They aren't set up to be outright sympathetic or connected in reality.
We don't know enough about them for them to be anything, strawman or otherwise. I'd need to know more about them before I'd call them anything.

Which is -again- why these comics hold no real message for me. Squig might as well be flexing or doing something along those lines to try and impress the unimpressed girl.

Its just a comic about a guy trying to show off for a girl, and failing.

Honestly, the only thing I am getting from the comic is irony. Tat is trying say the the stereotype of females in comics is often bad, yet here he is, giving us a girl with no personality whom one of the male characters is trying to impress for really no reason. The woman playing a support role to highlight the stupidity of the male character while having next to no character herself.
Quite a common female usage in a comic.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a URL shortener such as http://goo.gl then use the [url=short URL here]link text here[/url] to put it in the body (so you're not just tossing out random links without explanation). Alternately you can convert the punctuation to HTML ASCII code (&#32 is a space, for instance) and replace the spaces and parentheses with them... but goo.gl seems easier.
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Raal



Joined: 16 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Honestly, the only thing I am getting from the comic is irony. Tat is trying say the the stereotype of females in comics is often bad, yet here he is, giving us a girl with no personality whom one of the male characters is trying to impress for really no reason. The woman playing a support role to highlight the stupidity of the male character while having next to no character herself.
Quite a common female usage in a comic.


I highly doubt he's trying to impress her. Its more like he thinks he found a justification for his behavior and is now like "IN YOUR FACE".
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raal wrote:
I highly doubt he's trying to impress her. Its more like he thinks he found a justification for his behavior and is now like "IN YOUR FACE".

Ok, then why is he?
Why is he trying to 'justify' his actions to jrandom person on the street, who just so happens to be female?
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Raal wrote:
I highly doubt he's trying to impress her. Its more like he thinks he found a justification for his behavior and is now like "IN YOUR FACE".

Ok, then why is he?
Why is he trying to 'justify' his actions to jrandom person on the street, who just so happens to be female?


She made him feel bad about himself, so now he's telling her "Ha! Shows what you know!" Or a sentiment to that effect.
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joandark wrote:
Slick has always been depicted as a child


Some strips identify Slick as simply a very short young man.


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2031


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2206


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2379

So, you know, for whatever that's worth.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
She made him feel bad about himself, so now he's telling her "Ha! Shows what you know!" Or a sentiment to that effect.
Alright, well I'm still getting thr "trying to impress the girl" vibe from him. I still feel like he is flexing for her.

However, to get back to the first topic, regardless of WHY he is doing it, we are still learning quite a bit more about him than her.
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also re Slick's age:

IIRC the original Cast page (gone these many years) gave Slick's age as between 14 and 21 and 'Nique's as 16, so it seems reasonable to split the difference and presume Slick and 'Nique are about the same age.

Whether or not the Sisterhood girls are children or not is up for Tat to never make clear to us.
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